On March 19, 2003 MD asked the question: “Where will the Honda RC51 (SP-2) engine show up next?”. MD readers had some very strong opinions on this subject, and, in some cases, some stern advice to Honda. Here are the unedited reader responses:
- Hi, long time reader, first time writer. Love the work
you guys do, especially the part about being daily.
I think the Honda RC51 engine would be perfect for an
aggressive street fighter styled naked, something
along the lines of the new Kawasaki Z1000 and the
Aprilia Tuono. It probably wouldn’t take Honda too
much to develop a new chassis; they could just use the
standard RC51 frame and strip it of its bodywork.
Price it around $8,999 and I think it would compete
well against the current models available and those
upcoming ones (Ducati DS1000/S4R and maybe Suzuki’s
B-king).
Maybe it could even dethrone the fazer…
Thanks, and keep up the good work!
- Well I would really love to see that engine go into the 919’s frame, that is what I currently ride. And I must say that the 919 is a near perfect street bike, with a high spec V-twin, it would be the perfect street bike. Oh hey heres another idea, why not just keep the RC51 around for awhile, do you really think Ducati is gunna stop making 1000cc V twins just because they won’t be competitive in races anymore. I bet Honda would sell quite a few RC51’s every year just as a cheeper better looking alternative to the Ducati 999. But honestly I think Honda would be best by putting it into a naked style bike but leaving it in its current state of tune, with all the fuss over Aprilia’s Tuorno and Ducati with this new Monster S4R, Honda would do well in the highpower naked bike niche. Well thats what I think anyway but since when do the Jap bike manufacturers care about what kind of bikes Americans want.
- I believe that there are two great homes for this engine. The first is in the 919 chassis. Honda made it quite clear when the 919 was introduced that other engines could fit in the chassis, including the RC51 v-twin. The world needs a cheaper, faster Monster; I think this would be the perfect solution. The second home for this engine would be a power/sport cruiser to challenge the VROD. Honda likes to make us think that the VTX1800 can do the duty against the VROD, and in terms of power they aren’t mistaken. But an RC51 powered power cruiser (think Yamaha Warrior, but with real power) would be the ultimate; lower weight, better handling and more hp than either the VROD or VTX1800. So there you have it, two places where the RC51 v-twin could find a great home.
- In reguards to the RC 51 engine platform:
The Ideal place I would like to see this motor is in a Buell! If the Hardley guys could swallow their pride and get freindly with the Honda guys and purchase these engines from Honda to be fitted in the XB series of bikes, they would sell tons of em’ . Then again, a big V-Twin Interceptor with factory hard bags would be pretty cool too.
- Allthough I don’t like twins (they stop where 4-cyl start to make fun),
this engine is great and should be kept. I’ve driven a SP1 a few times (my
brother ownes one), also on the track, and it is enormous powerfull electromotor.
It is much better than the bike itself. Good idea to replace that sluggish and overengineered V4.
The V4, despite it’s valvetricks, hasn’t the torque or the power as the
750cc Kawasaki ZX7R (still the same as in 1995). Let alone the ZX9….
- How about an “adventure” bike, such as BMW’s R1150GS or Suzuki’s
V-Strom (a great bike that suffers in North America from an
embarrassing name). Honda could give us the ultimate Transalp. Just
my two cents worth. Thanks for your time.
- Why not try to make a KTM LC8 (and Highland 950) competitor?
A large, powerfull and lightweight offroader, that also can be SuperMotard
converted? It has to be a machine that asks for a trip in the dirt, unlike
the Varadero that usually don’t go further then gravel roads.
- Let’s see the Honda Nighthawk, which I own and love, is way overdue for a serious upgrade. Nothing says you have to keep it a 4 cylinder design. Lets put the RC-51 engine in its frame, upgrade the brakes, suspension,and frame from the parts bin of existing quality pieces Honda already has i.e CBR600, 919 etc. I don’t know what this would do to the positioning of the 919 but it sure as hell would wake up the ‘Hawk quite a bit.
- How about’s a large “trailie” / Adventure bike like the currently not-for-sale here VERADERO! ?
I’m pretty sure this would help recover some of that R&D money!
- Hi Dirck,
Two words: new Varadero! If I had to make a bet as to where this
motor will show up (in a “detuned for torque” configuration no doubt)
that would be it. As you pointed out in January, Honda can’t possibly
be oblivious to all those R1150GS’s, Tigers, and most especially
V-Stroms that Americans are buying.
- High tech cruiser? How about a big bore adventure tourer a la BMW GS?
Heck, just bring the Varadero!
- I agree that this engine is a jewel (I own one), but it has a problem if it
is to be put in something like a sport tourer-oil consumption. I use mine
as a sport tourer, and having the oil level go from max to min in 400 miles
is a pain. It was broken in carefully, and is ridden quite gently, rarely
seeing redline. For comparison, my VFR has over 100k miles and uses NO oil.
- M.D.,
I just read your story on the Honda engine and where it could end up next.
I have thought since the original street version came out that it should have been destined for the Interceptor line.
While the Interceptor seems by all accounts the benchmark sportstourer, it has always been fighting a bulk (weight) issue and if Honda has no intention to trim it’s weight, a meatier powerplant in the form of the S-P2 engine would make everyone smile.
You have a fine website and like the name I check it ‘daily’.
- How about a re-worked SuperHawk?
- Dirck,
How about a shaft driven sports tourer? Similar to a BMWR1100S or a Guzzi SP. It would make me think twice about a new motorcycle.
- Your comments on the RC51 mill as a possible replacement for the V4 in the Interceptor borders on the unthinkable.
How dare you suggest such a thing? Sacrilege!
It’s certainly a possibility but there’re legions of V4 followers. I’m a big fan myself.
I’d like to see it as a TL type bike with a lower price tag.
How about adding some cooling fins and throwing it into a cruiser chassis? Perhaps a V-Rod competitor at lower cost?
Seems a bit of a waste to put such an engine into a cruiser though.
- In answer to your question, I believe Honda has already made the bike it should sell next, carrying the RC51 motor. That bike is the New American Sport (NAS) it showed last year at Laguna Seca. Sure modify it slightly (conventional forks, lights etc) but keep the same concept and shape. Sell it for a reasonable price and I believe they would be on a winner. It would be the bike to bring me back to motorcycling. Kawasaki has started the ball rolling with the Z1000 which is a bike half way there in looks and concept (with the Honda being more radical obviously) to the NAS. Honda can capitalise on this first example of a radical naked bike testing the waters to make their bike a real winner.
The works been done. Just make the thing Honda!
- I think Honda should produce its own version of the Ducati Multistrata featuring the RC51 motor.
1. Make it SuperMoto, bad-ass looking – think KTM Duke, not Honda Varadero;
2. Light weight – think KTM Duke, not BMW GS;
3. Comfortable for rider and passenger – think BMW GS, not KTM Duke!
4. Normal people should be able to put at least one foot firmly on the ground while seated on the bike;
5. Dont skimp on HP or parts quality … make it SuperBike desireable! (or have two versions) Remember, this bike is not for kids. Guys with money don’t want a budget bike – Think Ducati 999 or any MV.
The result would be the ultimate two wheel SUV … capable of serious sport & backroad work (usually done on rough, frost-heaved pavement .. at least here in New England), light sport-touring duty and daily urban/commuter assault missions. It would be a two-up comfortable, upright, super motard styled motorcycle … an increasly popular segment worldwide esp. with over 30s.
But best of all .. unlike any vibratory single (think KTM Duke) or outdated aircooled twin (MultiStrada?) … it would have big, smooth, reliable Honda V-Twin power to keep things fun over the long haul.
PS Honda should hire Italians to style this bad boy … or it will flop.
- I had an ST1100. Loved the bike, plenty of oomph and hard saddle bags. But after wrestling with the weight for a few years I bought a VTR1000. I love the bike – plenty of oomph and light weight. But I find myself missing the saddlebags. So when the VFR was announced with hard saddlebags I thought “Here it is – the perfect bike” . Took it for a test ride and discovered I’d get hard saddlebags and lightweight but the oomph was missing. Sure it had a great top end hit when the 2 extra valves kicked in but I drive in the real world – taching usually 3500-4500 and I what the response in this range! So if Honda blends the RC51 into the VFR I’ll be the first in line (that is if the keep the hard saddlebags!).
- The RC-51 would make a great engine for a middle weight power cruiser or
street bike. It could be the bike that the Harley Sportster should have
evolved into. 450 – 500 lbs., 60″ – 63″ wheelbase, wide 180 rear tire, low
seat, 130+ HP. Priced at or below $11,000.00. Build it and they will come.
It would out V-ROD the V-ROD.
- Wow, would I love to see a RC51 powered naked bike (al la SV1000). Riding a SV650 now I and having been an owner of a TL-S I love the powerful v-twins with a street focus that are very track-day capable. Slap that engine into a cafe’ racer body, upper shelf suspension components, price it under 9 grand and watch them fly out of the showroom. I started my street riding experience with a Honda Nighthawk 750 and I loved it’s refinement and build quality, but the new Honda’s just don’t do it for me. This would probably bring me back into the fold, especially since I am currently saving for one of the new v-twin naked superbikes (Aprilia, KTM, etc).
- Build a sport tourer weighing not more than 625 lbs., wet, with hard bags and a shaft drive. The SP-2 bike weighs almost that much, so the only change the engine might require would be milder cams for a little more mid-range. Someone ought to step up to the plate and compete for the money people spend on the aging Kawasaki Concours.
- Hello,
I think Honda should build a new sport tour bike on this engine, or better yet, rebuild the RC-51 into a more “Rider-Friendly” bike, leaving most of the RC-51 as it is today. The lack of good wind protection, unless tucked, and better rider ergonomics, raised bars by about 4 inches and 2-3 inch shorter reach, keeps me from this otherwise great bike, same goes for Suzuki GSXR1000. It could also easily replace the Super Hawk, but in a fully faired version, but also naked if you preferred. As for a replacement to the VFR V-Four, nice idea, but it won’t be as smooth running as the V-Four currently is use. It would be nice if the VFR were a 1000cc bike though with a wider torque range…
Wishful thinking,
- Hi, I’d like to see RC51 engine on;
1. New & Improved RC51
2. New SuperHawk !!! (make it like VFR with side bags & ABS but keep it
light)
3. SV1000 killer Naked sports bike (no cheap chassis please)
4. New & Lighter Supermoto Varadero (& do import it to U.S.!!!)
5. Mega ultra ballistic super SCOOTER!or how about shrink it and make a new HawkGT everyone is lusting for…
- A new SuperHawk? something a little less intense than the RC-51 that us big
guys with bad knees can ride for an hour or two without hemerroid
prescriptions and crutches! Even better, bring in a Varadero with this bad
boy engine and watch the others scramble to keep up.
There is no way they will put that engine into more pedestrian frames
without “tuning for torque”, unlike the Aprilia Tuono(?) that has so much
power that its hard to control in a less than race crouch. More likely we
can hope for competition for the new Suzukis using the TL 1000 motor.
Any of these would be cool!
- Dirk: I don’t see this engine landing in the VFR…..eats too much fuel
per mile and the V4 format can only be replaced by a V5……more
cylinders maybe, few cylinders unlikely. I see it in an upgraded VTR
which is getting moss on it this year.
- Honda should put the engine in a big dirt bike, ala KTM, then they should go race the Dakar. If Honda really is everything they say they are, they should prove it by winning in their first try.
- I agree with your observations. Suzuki obviously has two winners on their hands with the SV twins. They may even be able to move enough of the V-Stroms to make Honda consider putting this engine into a variety of configurations. I think Honda should immediately look at putting this engine into a more mainstream chassis, naked or otherwise, and market a motorcycle that would perhaps divert potential customers from the other brands offering reasonably priced, but fun to ride V-Twins. Oh, just imagine the horrors if Honda went so far as to offer a modern V-Twin in a cruiser chassis and give the V-Rod a run for its money!
- I am a proud owner of a 2002 RC 51 and love it. It is one of the best motorcycle engines ever developed and really responds to aftermarket alterations in a positive way. I would hate to see it leave the Honda stables. The best way to extend its usefulness is to put it in a dual sport type of bike (BMW 1150GS, Suzuki V-strom type MC). IT has great torque and a slim profile.
- when the Hornet900 er 919 was released didn’t the glossies say
something about being designed to accomodate a variety of engines? The
SV is mopping up the mid-range market at least in mindshare (don’t know
about numbers) and Honda doesn’t have a trailie at all in the US (damn
stupid marketers). Seems to me a big trailie like the Suz DL1000 and a
919 but with the RC51 motor would be a useful addition to the product
line to compete with the SV1000. Personally I like my air-cooled 750cc
I4’s but I’ve ridden V-twins and like them too, just not owned one.
Scratch that, do you have Eric Buell’s phone number? Because the RC51
motor belongs in his Firebolts and not that stupid piece of floatsam
(even if the twin-blast is a remarkably good engine considering where
it comes from).
- The obvious application would be in a updated version of the Superhawk.
The one that I think would create the most stir would be slapping this motor
in a bike more similar to the 919. Hornet owners have long lamented the
choice of engine for the 919. (Not that I am complaining. In fact, it was
your review that convinced me to get one) It seems that every time I talk to
a 919 owner, they either absolutely love the bike or they want the V-twin
motor. Honda was rumored some time ago to be toying with the idea of
offering a 919 with a V-Twin (SP-1. I think) so this would be an easy way to
sell the SP-2 to a market that is already clamoring for it.
- How about as a Monster S4R eater? Single sided swing arm, upside down forks, naked v-twin. Hello Mr Ducati, I need my deposit back
- I agree with the most obvious option, the Naked Bike, as you suggested.
But, I would take it down the same design avenue that Aprilia took in the
form of the Tuono R, but I would keep the price under $10,000 – – unlike the
Tuono R.
If I were the Marketing/R&D Guru man at Honda, here is what the RCR-51 would
look like:
1. Anodized Gold Front Showa Male Slider Forks.
2. Exposed Frame….Black. Cool.
3. An upright riding position, but UNLIKE the Tuono (it’s TOO upright), I
would go for a more canted forward design much like a VFR.
4. Put in a rear shock, such as a Bitupo or something less expensive
compared to an Ohlins unit, and the specs would include a ride-height
adjustment.
5. A wind-shield that actually works…I have ridden a Tuono and one’s
riding position is so upright that the wind blast is a problem…so, protect
the rider.
6. Offer two versions, one with a pillion set-up and one without.
7. Offer a racer-spec version of the RCR-51, aimed at the track day crowd.
8. With this in mind, make adjustable foot pegs standard…one relaxed for
those longer overnight rides and higher for cornering clearance.
9. Under-seat exhaust would be nice….I have always loved the Ducati 996
Look. Maybe a single exhaust set-up much like the CBR600RR.
10. Make all of the brake lines steel braided.
11. Again, retail this unit under $10,000. I know that Honda can do it.
The Tuono R or standard Tuono are too expensive for a truly mass-oriented
sales volumes.
Well, there could be more, but I would love to ride a Stock Honda with a
ripper RC51 power plant, with comfy ergo’s, great suspension components out
of the box (not a usual Honda thing), and a naked look.
- Hi Dirck,
I actually brought this up to Jon Seidel and Doug
Toland at the CBR954 intro last year. When they asked
me what kind of bike *I* would buy, I responded:
“Take the RC51 motor, put it in the VFR chassis with
VFR bodywork, let it get 150-200 miles to a tank, and
you have a buyer.”
Friends of mine seem to agree. Even coming from a
background of racing and riding smaller displacement
bikes, the 02 VFR800 powerplant did very little for
me.
For over 10K OTD, a bike had better put a big
sh*tfaced grin on my face when I twist the throttle.
The VFR does not do that for me. The RC51 does.
I’m a sport-touring type of rider on the street who
likes a versatile bike, one that in the right hands
can lead anything short of an Isle of Man paced ride
on one day, and do a two-up 500 mile trip from SF to
LA or Eureka the next.
- I think they could definitely stick the twin in the
VFR, it’s overweight and underpowered. 130HP at the
crank would make a much better bike, in fact one of
the best choices out there. I own a ’02 RC51 and
would love to have another VFR but the latest gen
missed the mark, it needs some more power or trim some
fat. The engine could also make a great naked bike,
get rid of the 919 and make a 999!
- How about updating the aging Superhawk with the sweet rc51 motor and chassis with relaxed ergos? Something that would blow the aprilia tuono and SV1000 out of the water. We superhawk owners have been begging Honda to update the bike for a long time…it was great in 98 but could really use a freshening.
- I’ve many times commented on what a wonderful motor the RC51 mill would make in a cruiser chassis. You get the V-twin rumble & a load of linear power delivery for a full 10,000+ rpms.
The problem is if Honda were so inclined to make such a machine their engineers in their infinite wisdom would deem that kind of broad range of power to be maladjusted in a cruiser chassis & they would do something totally incomprehensible to the target buyers like detune it to give it 3 more ft/lbs of torque in the mid-range, lower the redline to 6000rpm & lose 30hp on top end…
Something as simple as just making the motor as it stands now a donor to the new chassis could truly open up a new genre of performance cruisers. Cruisers designed to be fun instead of fashion statements, comfy seating, wide, high handlebars, but in a lighter package. Designed to resemble a cruiser, but with modern lines & handling a little more befitting a 120hp motorcycle.
- The RC51 could definitely give Honda several options. Honda could do away with a couple of unexciting bikes such as the 919 and 750 Nighthawk, by using the RC51 in a Sport Standard/Naked bike. The RC51 would create a very enticing Varadero to compete with the Suzuki V-Strom and other adventure tourers. The RC51 would also allow Honda to create a lightweight SPORT-tourer that would outmatch Aprilias’ Futura and Ducati’s ST models. Such a SPORT-tourer may even allow Honda to retire the more expensive to produce, overweight, and technically complex VFR and CBR1100XX. This would then allow them to pull the V-5 into service as a Yamaha FJR1300 beating Super Sport-Tourer.
- I am not a Honda fan just because they are the largest company, BUT, if
Honda made a shaft-driven sport/tourer out of this motor, I’m sure it would
be a huge seller if @ a decent price($8K?). I currently ride MotoGuzzi
LeMans’ & a VX800 Suzuki for this category.
This sport/tourer would need a decent 2up seat like my VX though, & not
weigh more than 500#?. IMHO it wouldn’t need a full fairing either, instead
maybe 2/3. My VX has a 2/3 Rifle fairing which covers/works just fine w/o
a lot of weight.
- I think Honda has it within their capabilities to out “V-Strom” Suzuki with
this engine, and potentially take their XR650 experience to a whole new
level. This would scare even riders of the newer KTM twins (but probably
not as much as the proposed rider of a 130 hp dirt bike would be scared)!
Just think of the tire technology that could be developed trying to get
reasonably-sized knobbies that could hook this motor up for off-road
conditions. Now if it would trickle down to my 650 Dakar…
- Why don’t they just drop it in the Super Hawk?? And while they are at it, they could juice up the styling a little
- It is my sincere wish that Honda do something with this engine beyond the RC 51. I still own my RC, serial number 82 and I feel this is one of the best street bike engines I have ever had the pleasure of riding. It is powerful and relatively smooth. My preference is to see the engine in a bike like the Aprilia Tuono (Don’t detune it one bit!!!!) and also in a sport tourer as an alternative to the VFR.
- How about a light weight ST type that can be ordered on a custom basis with a fairing like a VFR or a with a fairing similar to the old ST and hard bags that are actually available at introduction and with dealers who have been informed by Honda. Lets also hope that the heat would be under control unlike the new ST 1300 and the charging system would be able to handle heated grips etc. unlike the current VFR. I have owned both a VFR and an ST 1100 loved both, but it seems like Honda has slipped some when it comes to pure simple excellence.
- The bike I would like to see a Honda RC51 (SP-2) engine show up next in is
the Honda Varadero that you thought might be coming to America.
https://www.motorcycledaily.com/19march03wherewillthehonda.htm.
I believe this bike would find a market very quickly and go head to head
with the Vstrom Suzuki,R 1150 GS BMW,Aprilia Caponord ETV1000 and win!!!
- I’m a rider who doesn’t care for the crappiness of Harley, the expense of the Italians, or the BMW-ness of BMW. Japanese bikes are my only choice, and that has (until very recently) meant that I have had to choose between wannabe-Harleys and gaudy, squiddy supersports. Now I own a 1999 Magna and a 2002 919 – one is sort of a cruiser, only not really, and the other is sort of a sport bike, only not really. Neither caters to the two big market segment extremes.
Here’s what I’m getting at, if you’re still with me. Aside from the Magna, there are very few bikes out there that cater to the segment looking for relaxed ergos with a 10k RPM sportbike whine and engine feel. I’d shell out big bucks for an elegantly designed, RC51-powered standard with a more relaxed position than the 919, but real ground clearance and top-shelf suspension. There’s nothing quite so fun as riding a bike that surprises everyone. “Sounds like a v-twin sportbike, handles like a sport standard, out-drags a VTX. Huh?”
My two cents.
- Although I love my 2000 Interceptor and its sophisticated V4, I think a 1000
cc twin is a superior engine for a sport tourer. The twin’s power delivery
is more suitable for the more relaxed riding style of a street rider. Even
the V4 can’t match the sound of a twin. Imagine a more polished version of
the Aprilia Futurer, with 20% more horsepower and a 20% lower price. I
think the next Interceptor should be powered by the current superbike
engine. After all, wasn’t that the original idea behind the Interceptor?
Other Ideas:
– Drop the twin into a revised version of the Magna. Now there’s a
power cruiser!
– How about a “Custom” street rod/sport bike like Ducati’s Hailwood
Special?
– A V-twin powered retro sportbike – like that Vincent.
– Get naked. - Personally, having owned both a GSX-R 750 and a V-Star 1100, I would LOVE to
see development move in the direction of lightweight/high performance
cruisers, into which the RC51 engine would be a great fit. Don’t get me
wrong, bikes like the Road Star Warrior, V Rod, and VTX are all a move in
the right direction regarding power, but looking at the VTX weighing in at
705 dry I’d like to see the weights come down. My V-Star is something in
the league of 650 lbs, when comparing that to my old sport bike of 375 lbs,
it seems apparent that there’s a lot of room for improvement.
Thanks for producing an outstanding website!
- This has been something I and at least one minor moto-journalist has been
crying for– RC51 torque surfing with VFR ergonomics. Torque is fun,
especially low down grunt, on the street.
Combine this kind of grin-inducing friendly torque curve with the design
principles of mass centralization to make an ST4S or Futura killer… as
opposed to the current RC51 which is an amazing track and street bike, but
can’t seem to go much further than 80 miles before gas becomes a major
worry.
- I just read your article on Honda’s RC-51 engine, speculating on where it will turn up next. I’ve been wondering myself why they haven’t put this magnificent engine in some other bikes, and since you asked for thoughts, here are mine.
I purchased one of the very first 2002 Honda VFRs with the new V-Tec engine, and was thoroughly disappointed in the engine. The bike apart from the engine was fantastic, and was exactly what I was looking for in a sport tourer. My first thoughts (following my discovery that the V-Tec engine was crap) were that the VFR/Interceptor platform would be the perfect place for an RC-51 engine – WITHOUT it being re-tuned, de-tuned, or otherwise neutered. Slightly shorter ratios for first, second and third gears would probably be all the big V-twin would need to make the VFR/Interceptor an exceptional, world class sport tourer.
An alternate selection would be to put the RC-51 engine in a naked hooligan bike similar to the Aprilia Tuono. Second gear power wheelies would suddenly be available to mortals like me who don’t possess the wheelie prowess of bike Gods such as the late Ronnie Smith of Performance Bike magazine.
I can say with definite certainty that if Honda would grant my wish and put the RC-51 engine in the current VFR/Interceptor platform (a project I contemplated doing myself until I found out what it would cost!), I would be one of the first of many to buy one and ride the wheels off of it. Otherwise, I would be willing to accept a VFR/Interceptor with some version of the V-5 currently housed in the RC-211V MotoGP rocket. (Please, Honda?? Puhleeeeeeeeze?!!)
Please pass my wish list on to Honda if the opportunity arises. Thanks!
- I’d love to see what or where this engine could be put to use! I’m a fan of the naked bikes, I was thinking SV1000, now I’m not so sure. The 919 was a good thought but I refuse to buy neutered bikes with what amounts to throttle stops installed so we don’t hurt ourselves with power.
I always wanted a VTR but the gas range made it just a passing thought. Loved the bike till it ran out of gas just when I was getting warmed up.
Interceptor replacement, sorely needed. It was criminal to be able to buy these bikes without hardbags. I hear they have bags now but was done with all the style of teaching pigs to sing. Very frustrating and not worth the trouble. Why bother with an overly complex 800?
Put some carbs, big gas tank, tubular handlebars, round headlight and no styling tricks, for $10,000 or less, and don’t dare give it the tuned for torque moniker.
Do it Suzuki SV style and have it both ways with or without.
- First off, I’d like to say that I really enjoy reading your articles. It’s
nice having something new to read every day (even if it’s small). A job
well done!
Now to the question at hand: What should Honda do with the SP-2 engine?
You touched upon it in the article. I would love to see this engine in a
“super naked” motorcycle. This bike would have more upright ergos
(handlebar replaces clipons), the RC-51’s fully adjustable inverted fork,
rear shock, wheels, Nissin brakes and EFI. Give it a bikini fairing, chin
spoiler, an underseat exhaust and keep it under 10k. Call it the SN-51
(Super Naked) and you’d have a winner.
- The obvious choice for the furthering of the RC51 engine
would be a standard that would compete with the Suzuki SV1000.
Also, Honda is notably absent in the adventure-sport category
in the US, so a competitor for the V-Strom is similarly forseeable.
Internal sales competition with the CB919 might preclude Honda
from building a CBV1000. However, competition did not stop Suzuki
from selling the SV1000 alongside the Bandit 1200. Perhaps Honda’s
decision will rest on the sales success of the SV1000 as it becomes
available this year.
RC51 engine manufacturing costs and the other R&D costs, coupled
with a soft moto sales market this year, may also preclude the
development of a CBV1000 for 2004.
Sign me up for one if they do show up here in the US.
- If I were sitting in the Honda development offices………………….
Hmm,
I’ve spent all this time and money developing this rippin’ v-twin for a
World Superbike Championship
and now that I’ve decided to pull out of the series (mind you, I’ve won the
title two out of the past
three years), what will I do with it to re-coup my costs for R&D.
Well, I should keep it in the street legal version of the WSC ride just to
take a few sales units away
from that silly Italian company that forced me to built the darn thing in
the first place.
Hm. I could drop it into the existing Super Hawk too. Maybe I could call it
the Super Duper Hawk. Well,
that’s what I’d call it in the States. In Euro land, it would be the SDH-2
and would be offered in cooler
colors.
Maybe drop it into the next version of the VFR. Maybe not. I’ve got to
keep my technology driven sacred
cow, oops, sorry, I mean v-4 flagship.
Hm. Maybe I could drop it into a naked bike. Mind you, I’ve got a pretty
nice little naked ride with that
919. But, maybe this could be the factory “hooligan” bike that every
bonehead writer complained that the
919 should have been.
Yeah, that would be the ticket!
Show that Buell fellow a thing or two about v-twin “hooligan” rides.
………………..that’s what I’d do.
- How about going after some of adventure bike market share? Paris to Dakar
adventure bike? Take a shot at the V-strom, I am the only one that likes
that name I think. The adventure would be keeping knobbies on a bike with a
130hp! Or how about a shot at the Duke? They are getting ready to debut
their twin anyhow. I think the RC51 motor would blow it away. Or how about
the super hawk? The current powerplant is a gas guzzler anyhow. Making a
light and spirited naked bike is the thing. Aprillia is hot on that trail
already and so is Suzuki with their busa powered naked. Makes sense but
Honda is being very conservative lately. Their sport quad is getting
spanked, their 4 stroke moto and enduro bikes are getting released so slow
it is unreal. Yamaha is running away with their sales. Their dualsport
design is super old. I love the 650L but dang, I think there a few fossils
buried in the frame some where? There XX sport bike is super old. Don’t get
me wrong I am a true Honda fan, sometimes they irritate me a little. They
are so good at what they do but then at the last minute they seem to water
everything down and end up a day late and a yen short.
- I just finished reading your article about Honda and the SP-2 motor. I currently ride a ’98 Superhawk, a bike that does everything perfectly well for the way I like to ride. For me it is a great motorcycle while being slightly out of the norm i.e. 4cyl. sportbikes. I like going for all day rides and carving tight corners, the ‘hawk performs well. My opinion for the SP-2 engine, how about an updated Superhawk, I’d buy it!
- Hey guys. Great site. I read it, well, daily. 8^)
It would indeed be a sad thing if Honda didn’t put the RC51 engine into
something with the Honda name on it. Your suggestion of putting it into
the VFR (Interceptor) hits home for me. Having owned a (’92) VFR and loved
every minute of it for 6 years or so, and having drooled extensively over
the VTR1000, putting this engine in the modern interceptor might just be
the thing that would bring me back (current ride: 2000 BMW R1100S).
- a: A muscle-cruiser. Without changing the engine or its state of
tune, add a set of chromed out fake fins (as a bolt on, keep the
casting the same) and put it in a modern styled cruiser chassis, using
the “tank” is an airbox, fuel is under the seat positioning.
The RC51 gets comparable torque and more power when compared to a
V-rod, so why not hop on the power cruiser bandwagon with a “Heart of
a Winner” cruiser? Heck, honda can sell it for more than an RC51 in
the process.
For even extra obscenity, have a turbo be an optional extra.
b: Paris/Dakar racer. Imagine a BMW-GS class bike with a superbike
engine? Have the chassis tall, but dump the fuel down low (again,
airbox “tank”, most of the fuel under the seat, long travel
suspension, optional panniers, optional ABS.
Let’s see the R-GS bimmer try to compete against a sportbike powered
adventure bike. Especially if Honda designs it well and fields some
Paris/Dakar teams.
The problem is, most of the other uses (supertourer, VFR-beater),
honda already has dedicated engines for.
- Here is some ideas, for like belly-buttons…everybody has them right?
1) This would be one helluva upgrade for the fun(but dated) Superhawk! Put some new plastic on it, more modern, new suspension, shazzam, a “new” bike.
2) As you mentioned, go head-to-head in the naked bike arena against the Suzuki SV1000 and S version of same.
3) If the motor were more pleasing to the eye when exposed, make a power cruiser with it. Let’s call it a svelte version of the venerable VTX.
4) Your mention of using it an upgraded VFR is VERY interesting. BOY…as emotional as VFR riders/owners are(a friend of mine has one), that would almost be worse than making them wait for a year or more for their promised hard-luggage. I can hear the crying now all the way over here in WI.
5) Okay Honda, catch up here. BMW, Suzuki, Ducati, Aprilia, KTM all have their “adventure” touring machines here stateside. You have one abroad. Well, give the US a version for us Being the torque and HP junkies that we are, we’ll take an adventure touring rig with the V-twin you so beautifully produced. Since there is power to spare, just make it shaft drive, 500-530 lbs wet, and take some ideas from your extremely capable XR/CR series of machines. *** I own an ’02 R1150GS, and it’s a complete hoot to ride!!!
Well that about sums it all up. I’ve ridden for 14 years, was a H-D dealer mechanic for over two, and in my third year of being an MSF instructor,,,,er sorry, now it’s “Ridercoach.” I have the GS as mentioned, ’98 Duc 916, ’01 Honda XR400, and my wife rides the ’00 H-D Sportster Sport. Motorcycling is all we do, no exclusive vacations overseas, no big house, no expensive (other) hobbies, just ride ride ride ride ride. It’s the best therapy in the world, and no doctor needs to prescribe me anything or charge me to see him/her.
Ya’ll take care. I love getting the information and pics you guys put out daily. I typically change my “wallpaper” with your photos to keep life interesting. An idea…..perhaps create a screensaver that is downloadable with like 20-25 images of the most recent iron and aluminum the manufacturer’s have produced?? I know, time is money, and I don’t blame ya. Take care, ride safe, keep the rubber side down and the rubber side up!
- As an owner of a 2000 RC-51, I concur on the merits of the engine, and would
love to see it used in a naked bike with a great chassis (just take off the
plastic, and reroute the hoses, and electrics, don’t touch the tuning). That
is the bike I would buy today.
- How about a water cooler power cruiser?
A VTX1000 that can rip a V-Rod a new one?
Okay…so kill the Super hawk and give the RC-51 some badly needed updated curb appeal…(slimmer tail, LED tails, Slimmer bodywork…)
and perhaps try to attack Suzuki’s SV650 line with a smaller V-either a 650 or 750? Also use the RC motor to use instead of the CBR900 4 on the poor selling 919…
Problem is too many bikes…and my guess is that the V-4 on the interceptor isn’t going anywhere, not with VTEC R&D and 2008 emission standards already in place.
- 1. Naked bike to compete with the SV1000/Tuono. The 919 has its fans, a
twin would have some also.
2. Sport-Tourer (emphasis on sport) to replace the over-complicated (and
OVER-priced) VFR.
3. Dirt-track racer to battle Suzuki and Harley. A street scrambler spinoff
could be cool.
4. Big trailie to compete with V-Strom. (If they let a college intern
design it, it would still probably look better then a Multistrada!)
- In response to your March 19th article on the RC-51 engine, I think that if Honda wants to compete with the Aprilia RSV-R Tuono and Ducati Monsters, they should drop that baby into the Superhawk. Perhaps it would make the Superhawk more expensive? So what? People are perfectly willing to pay more for the Tuono and Monsters, so why not? I think Honda really has the potential to show everyone else up, but they are sort of, well, lazy. This surplus (?) of the RC-51 engine could prove effective for Honda in the naked V-Twin war. Anyways, I think that as long as the engine isn’t put in a Goldwing, VTX, the sort, it will all be just fine.
- Tell Honda to put that RC51 engine (tuned down a bit) in the Varadero or another adventure tourer and get it to the USA as soon as possible, or at least get the Varadero over here in 2004.
There are going to be alot of dissappointed people that have been holding out for a big adventure bike from Honda and we all know they have one..
- I’d like to see it in a sport tourer. It would be just the ticket for competing with the likes of the ST4s/Sprint ST/Futura. The current VFR with this engine would rock!
- I am a product designer and happy owner of both a Hawk GT and a Superhawk. So, I’ve got a weak spot for sportbikes – but I think that an Honda may be ready to shake things up in the niche market catagory ( take the Rune for example – a bad example, in my opinion, but an example none-the-less ). How ‘bout a sport cruiser – and not a cruiser with just good brakes, and otherwise dated technology, but a new from the ground up bike. An aluminum perimeter frame, all kinds of goodies – something new and fresh from the styling department – classic cruiser proportions and clean, sleek feel, but an all new interpretation.
I seem to remember seeing a concept bike along these lines about a year or two ago – maybe in Cycle World, but couldn’t find any info.
- I’d like to see it in an aluminum framed V-Rod killer! No more
obese VTX’s please.
- I own a Suzuki V-Strom. I think a Varedero with an RC 51 Engine would be cool and a SV1000 type of bike. I rode a Honda Transalp for ten years and always wished Honda would import the Africa Twin and Varedero. They had their chance, I am very, very happy with the Suzuki V-Strom.
- Hi Dirk,
I like your thought process. I’d love to see the motor stuck into Hondas
answer to the V-Strom! Make it even lighter, and include Hondas usual
seemless build quality and I think you would have a winner. I yearn for
this class to get down to the 420lb. neighborhood and have suspension capable
of more serious off road duty without throwing it’s on road likability. Like
a DRZ of XR on steroids but with more comfort for the long haul. I’d snap
one up. For reference, I am a 99′ VFR 800 owner. I love my bike but I’d trade
it in instantly for The New XRL 1000!!!
Keep up the good work. I’ve been stopping in at your sight for a long
time. I love it.
- > Isn’t the VTR 1000 superhawk getting a little long in the tooth? A great
bike that sells consistently but it’s what? 6 or 7 years old! If they
dropped the RC51 motor in there and updated the chassis a bit it might
be enough to keep me away from that sweet new KTM naked twin.
- There appears to be no limit to the market for very expensive, exclusive
motorcycles. Honda could take a cue from its own Acura division, build
an Acura motorcycle with magnesium, carbon fiber, and trick suspension
similar to Britten. This is not the engine for mass produced bikes.
- I could see Honda putting the RC51 motor in a bike to compete with the new SV1000. Also, why not a small power cruiser that might be in the same performance catagory as the venerable VMax, but with all modern chasis parts.
- Hi,
Love the website.
Regarding the Honda engine, wouldn’t it be interesting
if someone stuffed one of those into a slimline Norton
featherbed frame? It would probably fit as even the
Vincent engine found its way into a few (the Norvin),
but I am not sure where the radiator could go.
Anyhow, a solid frame, a solid useable powerplant, and
some nice rearsets and a stylish understated tank seat
combo would make a very nice little package. Cheap
too. And handle like it was on rails. A nice salute
to the roadburners of yore. You could call it a
Noronda or a Horton.
So let’s make a deal, I’ll supply the chassis and you
use your pull with Honda for a test mule engine and
we’ll put it together?
We’ll arm wrestle to see who gets it for the first
weekend of shake down testing ha,ha!!
Thanks again for a great website and your kind and
considerate (hint,hint)efforts in conjuring up one of
those engines from Honda!
- Naked bike…
Light weight…
130 HP…
Twin…
Hooligan King…
Need I say more!
- I’m thinking a couple of things. The motor is supposed to be very linear feeling, with good torque, etc (not your typical high revving, no torque in line Japanese 4).
How about a sport cruiser, ala V-rod?
I really like my buell S-3, low end torque, great handling, and belt drive (no messy chain).
But it’s not as dependable as my Valkyrie. How about a nice sport tourer, with a belt drive? I think I would buy one. I looked at the interceptor when looking for another , sportier bike. I have a few Honda’s in the garage, am fairly loyal. But the chain thing killed it. #1, I don’t have the patience for chain maintenance, and #2, I want to hear the bike when I ride it, not the chain
- Having owned a 2000 RC51 and current owner of a 202 model, I can honestly
say that with some fuel injection tweaks and keeping its original horsepower
it would be a really interesting in a standard bike along tghe lines of the
old Suzuki VX800; THAT is something I would buy (unlike the emasculated 919).
- Hi, I have worked on this engine and it is a beauty but there is no call
for it really. Torque is determined by displacement basically. A 1000CC
4 or 5 will produce the same or better torque and 60% more horsepower.
The cylinders are as large in bore as practical or almost already and the
engine is almost as large in every way that you would want and heavy too.
A version with much more displacement might do it for a sort of Super-
Buell. A 90 inch version might be nice. Otherwise scrap it as it was only
designed to fit a rule. Top ranking racing should be almost rule free
anyway.
Run whatever configuration you want. If a supercharged TZ250 was the
quickest around the course or a 3000CC single than so be it. What is the
point in designing engines from two to eight cylinders just to fit the
weight breaks in the rules?? If an advantage is found in the three
cylinder weight limit that is decisive it will be closed. Ducati received
a 33% displacement advantage and as soon as Honda FINALLY broke down to
take advantage of this loophole it was closed and Ducati dropped the twins
and is moving to L4’s, Honda’s old 750 layout.
If I was Honda I would send the Yakusa down to FIM HQ to smarten those
jackasses up for pointlessly wasting so much money.
We need racing to develop expensive materials like carbon brakes and
wheels so production bikes improve.
I can still remember the first time I picked up the complete wheel
assembly of my ’79 XS!! ??? :):) What the H*LL :):)??
- Hi MD,
The first thing I can think of is to bring back the Hawk GT!!! God so many people love that bike- just think of a thoroughly modern rendition of it with an RC 51 powerplant. V-Twins are so much better in terms of rideability compared to other engines, so it owuld be nice to see the engine show up in as many bikes as possible. I agree with your idea to put it in the Interceptor- That bike could use a real update. Although it has seen displacement increases and styling upgrades, along with other changes, it seems like it could be updated much more thoroughly.
- -How about in a Honda version of a V-Strom and SV? Suzuki did a wonderful thing when it took the engine out of its weird TL and stuck it in the V Strom, but placing it in the new SV may make them loads of cash.
-Throw a turbo on it and put it in a new Honda snowmobile. I am sure a Honda lawnmower would sell well if it had this engine in it as well!
-Being a VFR owner, I would cry if it was in the new interceptor. I want the V-5 1000cc version and shave 60 lbs off of it please
- Hi,
The Super Hawk needs to be updated to go against the Suzuki SV1000, Aprilia Falco and the Ducati S4 Monster. A Super Hawk based on the RC51should be a cost effective way for Honda to go. A naked RC51 would be a Super Super Hawk.
- The obvious move would be to use the RC51 motor in a revised VTR 1000. The original VTR, now long in the tooth, got a lot of things right for its intended niche (mega torque, reasonable comfort, low center of gravity, narrow between the knees, etc.). However, because it was built down to a price, it suffers from cheap suspension and brakes (especially compared w/its original competitor, the TL-1000 S), and never became popular w/the sports bike buyer. However, a revised VTR 1000 w/a more potent motor (but still w/mega torque), upgraded suspension and brakes, and improved ergonomics (and a bigger gas tank!) could be irresistible. It would compare favorably w/Suzuki’s new 1000 V-twin sports/touring bike, which, ironically, is built down to a price w/bargain suspension and brakes, etc.
One other consideration: STYLE! The original VTR looked boring and dated when it was released. Now it looks ancient. The RC-51 isn’t much more inspiring looking. Honda’s on the right track w/styling of CBR954 and especially the CBR600RR. Give the styling of the new VTR to those folks and fire the folks who styled the Interceptor and the new ST1300. They look awful in person.
Ducati’s are still overpriced and require expensive maintenance too often. Yes, they are gorgeous. But I’d be very interested in a revised VTR 1000. I’m currently riding a CBR929RR but would have bought either a VTR or a TL1000 (I prefer V-twins to fours, having ridden a series of bevel-drive Ducati’s in the 70’s-90’s) if either had combined good performance, comfort, and reliability. Neither did.
- Hi
I hope Honda decides to sell an entire line of bikes that use the RC51 motor. Suzuki does it with their V-twin, why not Honda?
- Honda should bring the NAS Concept bike to production with the RC-51 engine.
- Hey Honda,
I’ll take one of these in a sport-tourer in a heartbeat. I’d buy an ST, but the damn thing is so heavy, and the payload sucks.
Here’s some other stuff I’d like:
1. The ability to do routine maintenance without taking half the bodywork off (I got rid of a Gold Wing for this very reason)
2. Supertanker fuel capacity
3. Roomy ergonomics a la the ST
4. Top loading bags (side loaders blow).
Don’t tell me you can’t make this work, cause you guys can build whatever you put your mind to. See you in the showroom this Spetember. I’ll bring the cash, you bring the bike.
- Congratulations on the best motorcycle news site on the web. Your main page is my home page and I never do anything until I read about what is happening in the MC world.
The RC51 motor is an exciting piece of technology that I would love to have in a more realistic daily use bike. With Suzuki finally bringing the long awaited SV 1000 to life, Honda should really consider putting the RC51 motor into two or three chasis. The naked standard and half faired twin are the easiest to see coming to production. It would be great if the standard had the same ergos as the Triumph Speed Triple, came is more than one color choice, and had an adjustable front & rear suspension. Maybe they would also consider a design that is a little more dairing than a typical Honda standard, they could even lift some of the design cues from their awesome naked design experiment of the recent past ( I forget the name but not the look).
Next would be a light weight “Super-Sport” Tourer with optional factory bags, quick and easy suspension adjustment, and moderate wind protection. Think of BMW RS ergos but with a lighter chasis, phenominal handling, breaking, world class fit & finish,and oh yah a “Superbike” motor. Honda could definitely build a bike to exceed the perfomance of the Ducati ST4S, and it would be a HONDA. As time marches on, motorcyclists get older and hopefully wiser. I still want cutting edge performance, but I want it in a package I, and my back, can live with. I hope Honda comes through with a few new ideas for their awesome RC51 motor.
THANKS AGAIN for all the news…see you on the apex!!!!!
- How about a big dual-sport / standard? Take on the BMW’s. That and the
real nice sport-tourer would be a good use of this engine…
- I would love to see this engine in a re-engineered VTR1000 as a sophisticated and comfortable sport touring motorcycle, with an emphasis on traditional yet modern styling. As long as it had an exceptional level of finish, and top drawer suspension and frame components, they could even ask a premium price. The bulbous and overweight Varadero would benefit from this engine, or better still, a replacement for the Africa Twin. Maybe they would even bring them into North America!! I have been waiting many years for Honda to do one or the other.
- Rip the hybrid drivetrain and batteries out of the Honda Insight and
put the 130HP RC51 motor in there! We got your rice rocket right here,
buddy!
How about a classy, understated open classer – with a supercharger?
A V-ROD killer?
- My thoughts on where the RC 51 motor should go is easy. I think they should put it into the VTR1000F and revamp the bike a bit, coz its been a while since HONDA has made any big changes to this bike
- I am a SP 2 rider in Germany and it is a great motorcycle. The best I ever
had. I think the engine will be best in the new Super Hawk called Firestorm
in Europe.
- Why not put this engine in a sport touring machine like the VFR but with top quality brake and suspension component.
I mean inverted fork with all the tuning, ajustable everything for the rear shock and radial brakes with ABS up front.
Add ergonomics permitting long distance touring for two in the VFR class.
With performance when not loaded for touring that would compare to the best 750s.
That would be a Ducati, BMW killer and a very happy rider.
- It would work ideally well in a bike to be sold alongside the Interceptor. With this, you’d be able to have your GT touring bike in your choice of two flavors, and Honda would have something to take on the ST4, big BMW twins and Futura. With this motor, they’d kick ass on power too.
I think it could be interesting. I’d love to see that motor wind up in a version of the Hawk as well.
- Editor:
I hope Honda takes heed of Dirck Edge’s suggestions.
My favorite idea is a naked bike with that fabulous
powerplant. Kawasaki certainly is taking that niche
seriously, though with an in-line four that might not
provide the most street-user friendly powerband. With
Ducati’s new 996 Monster on the way and Aprilia’s
Tuono, it looks like the field is getting even more
serious about V-twin performance without fairings.
Ideally, Honda could produce a product that easily
provides as much torque but at $1500 to $2000 less
than the Aprilia.
- Interesting to speculate on this. What vacancy currently exists in the Honda batting order? Perhaps a lightweight sport-tourer ala Ducati or Aprilia? Something to steal some of the sales of Suzuki’s incredibly popular SV series? A big performance upgrade of the lagging Superhawks to stimulate sales? Or even a 999 style/performance beater?
There are lots of intriguing possibilities for Big Red with this one, and the company that still makes the Nighthawk won’t throw this one away, count on it.
- Honda should make a competitive naked bike using their RC-51 engine.
Aprilia has done a fantastic job with the Tuono – R and the plain Tuono. Why doesn’t Honda take this and build a direct competitor to this bike?
Besides, the Honda 919 is a bit anemic when it comes to the rest of the lineup:
Aprilia Tuono
Kawasaki ZRX1200
Kawasaki Z1000
Suzuki Bandit 1200
Suzuki SV1000
Yamaha FZ-1
The United States market is finally waking up, hopefully, with regard to naked bikes. We can expect power, good ride, power, ergonomics to provide an upright seating position, power, handling, power and all the other basic necessities we have come to expect from a naked bike. We really don’t need all that plastic to hide the beauty of a motorcycle – the engine. Put it out there for all to see and admire. With the technology that is available today, you can build a basic motorcycle without all the fancy nicety but not necessity items at a reasonable price. I really think that in today’s marketplace value is more important to the educated buyer.
- There’s a few places that I can think of. First – why not use the technology on
the Motocross bike? Second – sell it to a snowmobile manufacturer – they are
dieing for a 4 stroke replacement that is lite and quick, this engine is in the
right hp range. Third – put it in a quad (ala banshee) for a sand machine. The
tech could be used elsewhere, I’m sure.
- I own an 88 Honda Hawk GT, and would be the first in line for a SP2 engined
naked bike. I don’t like the 919, simply because it’s not a V-twin, like
that bike should be. Torque is what I want–and the rumble as well.
