This morning’s Sydney Morning Herald contains a scathing assessment by Casey Stoner of Valentino Rossi’s stint at Ducati. The short article is worth reading yourself, but tasty bits include the following quotes:
- “I just feel completely sorry for Ducati that Valentino has gone there and done nothing but complain about the bike for almost two years.”
- “They ate their words from day one.”
- “Jerry [Burgess] saying that it would take him 80 seconds to fix that bike and that it was a simple issue and now they have had almost two years and have not made any inroads.”
- “Valentino obviously doesn’t want to push limits and ride a bike that is not perfect, he has admitted that.”
Rossi has reportedly taken a huge pay cut to play second fiddle to Jorge Lorenzo at Yamaha . . . something made clear by a quote from Lin Jarvis at the end of the Sydney Morning Herald article. In contrast with Stoner’s performance on the Ducati, which included a World championship and scores of victories and pole positions, Rossi was only able to manage two podiums (no wins) in his first year and a half aboard the machine. Some feel the bike development skills of Rossi and his crew chief, Jeremy Burgess, have been exposed as a myth.
Stoner again reveals his deep frustration with competitors and fans who have discredited his success for various reasons. We will have more about this in a future article.
Have never tweeted, never blogged; however, I am a massive MotoGP fan in awe of all riders at this extreme level. From Fast Freddie to the great Doohan to Lorenzo, I’m old enough to have enjoyed the careers of many, many champions. One can rationalize until the cows come home, but numbers reveal the lie in the end. There is no way to win seven titles without near-incomprehensible talent, discipline and courage. (A touch of Italian bravado doesn’t hurt the cause.) Different tires, different bikes, solar flares…whatever. Everyone gets lucky, but seven titles worth of luck? Let’s be lucid about this. When Rossi wins more titles than Ago, he’ll be the best of all time. Until then, he’ll be the second best rider. Incontestably. All the one or two-title champs must fall in line behind them. For any number of reasons, they couldn’t pull off more spectacular careers. Including Stoner, who indeed strikes one as a whining brat despite his awesome skill on a bike. Rossi, in turn, clearly wondering what’s happened these last two years, should go back to Yamaha, take Ago’s win title, and neatly settle all arguments. Inevitably, it will be the most difficult thing VR has done with his career on any bike. In any event, whatever one thinks of any of these guys, I thought I would add my comment in support of Dave’s point. Rossi draws sponsors and makes global viewership a possibility. It’s that simple. When he’s gone, let’s hope someone comes along to replace him. The sport needs it; otherwise, it’s going to become tough scheduling flights to all the races around the world. (Now, any idea who the next Rossi is going to be? I’m afraid I can’t pick him out on the grid these days.)
Stoner: “. . . sorry for Ducati that Valentino has gone there and done nothing but complain about the bike for almost two years”
What Stoner stated above is a fact……and true……so how does this make him the problem?
Or……his dog, his race wins, his race loses, his grandfather or anything else other than Rossi the problem?
Just every now and then can we all try to make decisions on the facts…….not who is involved? Ofcourse not
If Val says the bike is not right, who better than he would know? He has only a few more race starts than Stoner, only a few more poles, a few more podiums,only a few more wins, and only NINE World Championships to his name. When Casey can match Valentino’s record then he can comment. Perhaps riding in the wake of 46 at Le Mans this year woke up Casey Stoner as to who is the MAN. Not only was Stoner behind Rossi at the checkered flag, Val on lap 21 had the fastest lap of the race. What was the next thing out of Stoners mouth? I’m quitting at the end of the 2012 season. Once the dynamic duo hop aboard the tuning forks it will be a whole other tune being played. So we will wait for the inevitable to happen. A 10th title for Rossi. I think Jorge Lorenzo will run interference for Val from the git go. We shall see.
all of your words still haven’t changed the fact that Stoner won on the Ducati and Rossi has not won on the Ducati. I’m a fan of both riders for their own contributions to the sport…
Rossi’s charisma on/off the track adds many intangibles to the entertainment value. His consistency on many different bike sizes & brands and against all sorts of competitors is arguably the best of all time. Truly, quite possibly a once-in-a-lifetime racer. “Historic”& “Legendary”
Stoner’s undeniable talent is the ability to win on any bike. No matter how many people whine about his whining, the ability to win on a bad bike is as legendary as Rossi’s consistency in amassing the most wins. I know that is gonna cause some arguments, but think about this:
As you correctly discuss Rossi’s amazing talent above, also consider the fact that while Rossi’s talent was being put to use on a great bike, Stoner was winning on a bike at the same time that is a mid-pack finisher today. That is also legendary & historic.
Let me ask… Can you ride anywhere near as good as any of these riders…… ???? No doubt a resounding no….. And even if you think you can, why aren’t you out there putting your money where your mouth is?
The only people that have earned the right to complain about the bikes, the riders and the crews, are the riders themselves. They are the ones out there risking it for the fans.
Wether they win or lose, they at least have the gonads to have a go.
They are the best of the best!!
Cut them some slack and enjoy the racing!
Words can be said about Rossi, but the mere fact of 7 world championships speak by it self, lots of people are just envious of his success, get over it, he is a champion and will always be…
I believe his wife told him she would cut him off if he didn’t quit. What a Wus.
literally unbelievable.
What a shame the Internet is a magnet for the Rossi ‘cultists’….MotoGP will be all the better when Rossi retires and all his ‘clueless cultists’ follow him and are never heard from again…MotoGP back to normal.
This post reads like an EMO kid who now hates his old favorite band because everybody else likes them now.
“Back to normal” means low enough viewership that we don’t get a broadcast in the US during normal waking hours. When Rossi leaves there will be a huge void and a drop in viewership. If you like watching the sport, you should be rooting for him to get back up front on the Yamaha so that teams can draw more sponsorship money. Right now they’re dropping like flies (CRT anyone?)
Sorry for Casey that he didn’t get the recognition he deserved. Guess having the personality of a wet rag does that. Can’t deny the talent on a bike but your interviews are like watching paint dry and even more boring with the incessant whining about the lack of respect you perceive. Good riddance and next time he pops off about a competitor he should first compare the number of championships. He might even be able to add up all of Rossi’s if he uses his fingers.
I don’t want to sound like a diehard VR fan, but really to me, as a racing fan, Stoner is a very dissapointing rider. For someone that claims that wants to keep a low profile, hates PR, says he preferred to live in the shadow… well he sure enjoys coming up with these very regular bombs. If he really wanted to keep low, he would, period.
I read everywhere that he is a racing genious, even VR says he “rode like a god”, but right now his achievements (not necessarily results) don’t show that. Anyone who wins a MotoGP championship is an exceptional rider, there are a few in the grid today, but real genious that’s something above winning a MotoGP championship. Just to explain, both Schwantz and Alex Criville (remember him??) have each a MotoGP crown, but one was a true genious.
Stoner won one MotoGP in a Ducati, first year of the 800s and the Bridgestones had an advantage, then 3 years with lesser results. If he had won 3 or 4 straing campionships that would really show that it was the rider the distinc element, not the bike. Curious how he is very keen to give the media these flash news like this one and back then did not explain his misterious illness….. sorry to me as a racing fan all that sounds PR BS. Unlike Lorenzo who is proving to have real charachter, no BS, and having respect for VR even after winning one MotoGP on the same bike.
And Stoner won other title on a Honda last year when it had a distinct advantage with it’s trick gearbox. This year Yamaha leveraged things and Lorenzo is all over Stoner right now. Stoner has been in MotoGP for 8 years, will leave and, if Lorenzo gets the 2012 title, in a couple of years nobody will remember him.
I don’t know if Rossi will ever win again, but he has nothing to prove, he is one of the great ones.
+1, well said Vasco. Just read the Indy press conference transcript, VR spoke humbly and conducted himself with class. Stoner on the other hand was still making digs, like a spoiled child.
I disagree with both of you.
When VR/JB first took over the Ducati, they were full of bravado about how quickly they would ‘fix’ the bike:
“I can watch some of these lesser riderrs on the Ducatis and you can see that the bikes are, in my opinion, Unsuitably set for what they want to try and do with them. I’m not saying anybody’s doing a bad job. I see these things wobbling around. When I think, clearly, if we had that ossue with Valentino it’d be fixed in 80 seconds, but some riders don’t like the hardness of the bike, because they don’t get the feel. But then when they’re riding around and it’s too soft they’re not going forward either. So you’ve got to be able to create the feel with the hardness to avoid all that sloppyness. I don’t think there are any issues in the bike that are a big worry to me.”
http://www.sportrider.com/news/146_1010_jeremy_burgess_talks_about_his_move_to_ducati_motogp_with_rossi/index.html
The way I interpret this is that he figured all the “lesser riders” had no clue how to set up a bike, and that Casey didn’t seem to have too much trouble. If you look at that from Casey’s point of view, it completely marginalizes the effort he had to put into riding that bike, and the lack of development by Ducati.
Now that everybody knows the Ducati is a dog their catching serious flak… But no one is quick to heap praise on the man that won on that dog, every year he rode it.
In my opinion, Casey has earned the right to be snide towards JB, and by extension, Rossi. Rossi is only being humble because he failed on the Duc and has tucked tail heading back to Yamaha. How could he be anything but humble at that point?
As for the significance of their world titles…
Yes, Casey had a power advantage in 2007, and had an advantage in the Bridgestone tires (thanks to Dorna). It was more of the same in 2008, until the “mystery illness” which really was a mystery… Which only went unexplained until they figured out it was lactose intolerance making him sick. In 2009 and 2010 he lost his tire and power advantage, and was forced to contend with the ill handling of his bike, which has never been cured, to this very day. I’ll give you the fact that he was on the best bike on the grid in 2011, as were pedrosa, Dovisioso and Simo (RIP) whom he beat convincingly.
Lets compare that to Rossi:
2000/2001 he was on Mick Doohan’s NSR500, with Mick’s crew, JB included. Best bike, best team.
2002/2003 he was on Honda’s 990 RC211V, the undisputed best bike on the grid.
2004 he moved to Yamaha, the second best bike on the grid, and he made it better while Honda made their bike worse. This is the title I give him the most respect for.
2005 he had the total package bike, as Honda lost their way.
2006 Honda finally figured it out, could have gone either way. Equal bikes, he lost.
2007 Casey had an advantage, and won. Rossi could not overcome that.
2008/2009. Would have lost 2008 if Stoner stayed healthy, on the best bike in 2009.
2010 on equal bikes with Lorenzo, it would have been equal terms for the championship if he didn’t break his leg
2011/2012 utter fail. He’s out their wobbling around like a lesser rider.
I’m not saying Rossi didn’t have some epic rides, but he won titles when he had the best package, and lost titles when he didn’t, every year except 2004. It’s not all that different from Casey.
Who went out and finesed well ahead of Rossi, with pretty bad injuries…
“I don’t know. I imagine Rossi looks over the landscape of his sport and sees Wayne Rainey in a wheelchair, Kevin Schwantz just beaten to a pulp, Mick Doohan nearly losing a leg…Marco Simoncelli dying…and he rightfully thinks, ‘Why? For what? I have more money than I could ever spend in ten lifetimes. My place in history is secure. If I want it, I even have a nice little auto racing career waiting for me once this gig is over. With all that being the case, and with Ducati having proven that they’re flat-out unable to fix their bike in anything approaching a timely manner, why on earth should I risk life and limb just to shut Casey Stoner up?” – Very good point by VJ
You are dead right.
So come on Casey, there’s a ride going at Ducati, so put your moto where your mouth is
Hey Tony – Casey doesn’t have to prove anything to anyone – He has Been there and DONE THAT … Rossi has lost the plot … Rossi’s MOUTH didn’t get him far with DUCATI …
Ok how’s this,
Come on Rossi put your Yamaha where your mouth is.
“Rossi complains about his ride and it’s ‘with good reason’. Stoner complains and he’s ‘a whiner’.”
EXACTLY!
Your first sentence describes all great racers. Rossi definitely has something to prove, how else to understand his acceptance of a huge pay cut?
Previous response to Motochris, my mistake
Hefner hit the nail on the head with that last paragraph. Stoner’s first Ducati had an enormous power advantage. The only other time in recent tears I’ve seen that kind of straight away power advantage was last year’s Honda (Stoner was on.). Surprise…Stoner’s two championship came on those two bikes.
Look, I’m not a Stoner basher, to me he’s second only to Lorenzo right now in terms of skill. However, if you put he and Lorenzo on identical bikes, Lorenzo beats him 80 percent of the time. In Rossie’s prime, I would have said he could have had the same advantage over Stoner.
But the bottom line here is that a classy person would have simply kept his opinions to himself, or at least not stated them to the media. He loses a lot of my respect going public with these comments.
It is basically the rider’s job to complain about the bike. If they have to go through a dozen sets of forks, so be it. The problem is when the complaints are not addressed by the team.
My pet theory is that the V engine configuration is too slow revving. Suzuki dominated wsbk with an inline four but did nothing with a v4 in gp. Same deal with the vfr in american superbike. Only factory Honda could make the vfr win. No privateers period on the vfr.
Rossi is a champion. He went to Yamaha, a poor team, and as the ‘Doctor’, diagnosed all issues, were addressed, and they won championships. He can’t run the course, he needs a supporting cast to give a competitive bike. Stoner’s Ducati was 800 cc, lighter, less powerful than the liter they have to throw into a turn now. Both riders have commented that the engine is too darn good. They are actually now, after the change to the aluminum frame, detuning the engine for lower end power. Why it’s taking so long? I bet they all wish they had the answer.
Hayden and Rossi won championships before electronics. It included sliding in and out of turns, while saving your tires. Now, electronics, just about any skilled rider like dufus Lorenzo can win.
Dorna should address electronics and limit them to a certain percent of present function. We need skilled riders, not guys who take the throttle wide open at every turn and wait for the electronics to do the max the machine can do.
Rossi, is, the G.O.A.T. We, are living in that decade. Think about it.
Stoner is reaping what Rossi and Burgess have sown here.
I’m of big fan of Stoner when he opens his mouth, but Rossi and JB gave Stoner no respect for his time on Ducati, which was unprofessional. It has come back to bite them. That’s poetic justice for having no grace when it’s warranted.
The number of times that Rossi has been beaten or out-qualified this year means that he’s been taken down several pegs.
Rossi will go down as one of the greats, no question. There’ll be bar room/chat room discussions about his ranking in history, but that’s what we do!
I’m always slightly perturbed by the Rossi PR machine. He has courted journalists the world over, such as being very nice about riders from their country (e.g. ‘he will be a threat to the championship’ comment to US journalists about John Hopkins(!)) but as soon as anyone challenges his position, that person is destroyed from a PR perspective – Gibernau & Biaggi to name two. Jorge Lorenzo seemed impervious to that, which is when Rossi showed cracks for the first time, and his ego has had to take some pounding ever since. Rossi left Yamaha in a hissy-fit when his team mate started to win regularly. He gave Yamaha an ultimatum, and they were very brave in holding firm. And, sponsorship aside, Yamaha have been proved correct.
Stoner’s comments come from a place where the riders have felt that riders are swimming against the tide when it comes to getting their voice heard over VR. Stoner’s awkward ‘ambition-outweighs-talent’ comment last year was a first stand, but now he has the luxury of knowing that Rossi will not be able to trouble him in his last year of MotoGP. He has timed it after Rossi’s statements too and taken all the headlines.
I hope above all else that we see some good racing at some point soon in MotoGP. It’s a massive soap opera at present, but that’s largely the creation of VR and his entourage.
I’ll chime in since no one has posted the fact that Rossi did publicly make a comment about Casey not trying hard enough to win on the Ducati. He made this comment when riding for Yamaha just prior to going to Ducati. Apparently, Rossi felt he could waltz into Ducati and make the bike work for him and we all know how that story ends.
I’m not a huge fan of either rider but I think Casey has huge talent and I will miss watching him ride. Have you ever seen any of the high resolution slow motion videos of Casey working the Honda through turns. Awesome stuff! Obviously, Rossi’s record and talent speak for themselves. I personally was hoping Ben Spies would’ve brought the MotoGP title home to America but for some reason he flailed. Oh well, I guess I will have to watch him kick some ass (hopefully) on a BMW in WSBK which is by far the better series to watch anyway.
Finally, wtf is G.O.A.T? I’ve read the term many times on this forum…..
G.O.A.T. = G.reatest O.f A.ll T.ime
G.O.A.T. , “Greatest Of All Time”, was the title given to/earned by Ricky Carmichael.
People who may not know Racing History seem to want to present the title to others… I wish they’d make up their own titles and stop trying to steal RC’s. “The Doctor” or “The Roman Emperor” to describe “The Kentucky Kid” or “Super Sic”? Should we call Ben Spies the “new” “Texas Tornado”? What about Colin Edwards the Guy that made “The Texas Tornado” famous?
Look, over there! It’s the G.O.A.T. couch potato!
Does your mother know you play on the internet?
Man there’s a lot of opinions on this. Some I agree with, some I do not, some I don’t have enough info.
In fact, the reason I’m posting this is – guess what, most of these opinions are really in the “you don’t have enough info” category.
I suggest reading Kevin Cameron’s “Top Dead Center” (the book that is) and then think about all the comments in this thread. Do you really know? As the band XTC (most excellently) said, “It’s a complicated game.”
This from a guy who whinges if he finishes a race in 2nd place.
I gotta tell you Dirck, by you even repeating the statement about Rossi and Burgess’s development skills being a myth, you play into the whole Stoner-whiner thing. Does everyone not remember what a DOG the Yamaha M1 was until Rossi/Burgess arrived and IMMEDIATELY STARTED WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS?? sheesh
Rossi is one of the greats and no telling how much he/burgess “developed” the m1 but you can’t discount the impact of the Furasowa designed crossplane. No in-line four with a flatplane has won a motogp race.
Yeah bigtime kudos to Furosawa! That simply cannot be understated. It won World Superbike as well!
I’m pretty sure that Max Biaggi won two races in 2002 on a pre-crossplane M1 Yamaha, which was an inline-4.
I have mixed feelings regarding Rossi’s stint at Ducati. For one thing, I’m aware that neither I nor any of us here truly know just how far behind the eight ball Ducati really has been in terms of engineering. All the reports seem to indicate that progress vis a vis significant new parts and proper development from the red team move at a glacier’s pace compared to what Rossi experienced while riding for Honda and Yamaha.
I suspect that this has had quite a lot to do with his recent poor performances.
One point I get tired of hearing is this nonsense that Stoner won on a bike Rossi couldn’t win on. No, Stoner most certainly did not. He won on different tires and on an 800cc bike with a completely different frame/electronics package than the unridable 1000cc version Rossi has been saddled with for two years. While no one will ever know for certain, I think it’s fair to speculate that Stoner would not have won on Rossi’s bike. Simply observing Stoner’s consistently diminishing results each year at Ducati, it’s hardly far-fetched to think that his three wins in 2010 easily could have become zero wins by 2011 and 2012.
One area where I do agree with Stoner (and with many others) is in his basic feeling that Rossi has not given it his all while at Ducati. The evidence there is irrefutable. The thing is, I’m not convinced that this is necessarily a particularly damning truth. Rossi is too great a champion to derive any real motivation from the thought of finishing fourth instead of seventh. Knowing that he simply cannot mount any serious challenge for the title and for history—the only things worth chasing at this point for someone of his stature—do I really blame for not taking a balls-out approach to a hopeless situation?
I don’t know. I imagine Rossi looks over the landscape of his sport and sees Wayne Rainey in a wheelchair, Kevin Schwantz just beaten to a pulp, Mick Doohan nearly losing a leg…Marco Simoncelli dying…and he rightfully thinks, ‘Why? For what? I have more money than I could ever spend in ten lifetimes. My place in history is secure. If I want it, I even have a nice little auto racing career waiting for me once this gig is over. With all that being the case, and with Ducati having proven that they’re flat-out unable to fix their bike in anything approaching a timely manner, why on earth should I risk life and limb just to shut Casey Stoner up?
‘No, I think I’ll choose to live to fight another day….’
While such thinking certainly goes against the accepted mores of competition in general and his paycheck specifically, I can’t entirely condemn him for it. If he feels a fight for an occasional podium is simply a battle not worth engaging in at this stage of his career, I suppose I can understand it.
In the meantime, Casey Stoner has been nothing but loudly miserable for a number of years now. When it comes to complaining, he has the entire grid covered. Even when he wins, his comments almost always seem to be centered on what he personally did to overcome the glaring deficiencies of his bike. He’s had next to nothing positive to say about anybody or anything, and the adulation Rossi receives as the ultimate ambassador of the sport clearly grates on him.
Well, Casey, win nine world titles with the grace, flair and utter joy Rossi has displayed throughout his storied career and perhaps you too will be celebrated in similar fashion. Until then, it would behoove you to gain an understanding of a very simple concept: No one likes a sore winner.
Well put.
Don’t forget that when Stoner was winning, he had top grade teammates that couldn’t get near the podium. You call Rossi’s ducati unrideable, but Nicky and Barabera have often beaten Rossi in races and qualifying, and you can guess where they are in the pecking order when it comes to equipment upgrades and influence.
+1, also Nicky/ Barbara didn’t have the services of the 80 second Jedi master burgess
This is the key point that is so often overlooked. Nicky spent years as the teammate of both riders and he knows who the better rider is. The current Ducati is a better/easier-to-ride machine than some of the bikes Casey was able to win races on and set pole. The bike is getting better results this year for Nicky and the sattelite Ducati riders (notably, Barbera) than in some of the years Casey took wins and poles.Rossi has all those titles and wins, and has had a great career, but there is only one rider he ever described as riding “like a God.” Retiring so young, Casey will be remembered as a legend in his own right.
You are comparing Nicky to Stoner and them both to Rossi. What was Nicky able to do on the Honda when he was riding with Pedrosa? He won a championship and then what? Casey took wins when they switched to 800cc on a bike that, if you go back and watch the races, had a huge advantage. The subsequent years Casey rode the Duc showed how that advantage quickly diminished. Regardless, Stoner is a great rider, but to say he rode “the bike that couldn’t be ridden” seems incorrect.
Go back to the M1 when it was a bike that couldn’t be ridden. Rossi got on the M1 off of the unstoppable Honda and took the championship. If Stoner did it on the Duc, don’t forget that Rossi did it on the M1.
Both riders have left teams because they didn’t feel the bike or team could get them where they wanted to be #1. Stoner left Ducati because of this and now Rossi. Maybe we should all see the obvious. Stoner and Rossi both want to win and they didn’t feel like Ducati was the place to do this.
The only hope for Ducati is Audi dumping their fortune into the program for MotoGP.
Dont forget that the 2007/2008 honda was designed around pedrosa, not hondas 2006 World Champion.
And as far as Rossi’s first title on the Yamaha, it was clearly the second best bike iin 2003, and at the same time Furosawa managed to make it better, Honda managed to make their bike worse. Still epic, but the timing in that deal was to perfect to ignore.
The fact that no one but Stoner was doing anything on the bike says a lot about the bike. As to Nicky and Barbera often beating Rossi in races and during qualifying, like I said, Rossi probably isn’t going to stick his neck out just to finish fourth instead of seventh. Nicky and Barbera aren’t winning races or even getting on the podium, and neither is anyone else on a Ducati. This should tell you that it’s unridable, particularly considering the additional fact that riders of satellite Yamahas finish ahead of all the Ducatis every week.
Bravo, most lucid and insightful comment I’ve seen on MCD in a long time.
Charming words from a guy who has less than a third of the world championships, also left Ducati for better equipment and is stomping away at the end of the season.
it only tells me Stoner was willing to ride 10/10ths on a dangerous machine to make a name for himself. If Rossi had anything to prove (he doesn’t) he would have risked it and pushed that piece of red @@@! to the podium
…….says another former Ducati rider wearing an HRC hat!
Now for a different slant: Can you imagine retiring with a face that young?
With a mostly unbroken body, millions and millions of dollars and his wife? Seems down right prudent coming from a class of men ( top level racers ) known for their egos
Yep, and guess which rider will still be competing next year despite the fact that he probably won’t win a bunch of races.
“In his most recent race Rossi was eighth and 10 seconds behind teammate Nicky Hayden when he crashed out of the US GP.”
Maybe I can compare Rossi’s Ducati with Hayden’s then.
“Rossi will now have to take the backseat behind his rival, Spaniard Jorge Lorenzo.
“Our main investment is in Jorge and he is the No.1 candidate to be champion both this year and next year. He is our No.1 rider,” said Yamaha MotoGP boss Lin Jarvis.”
$10+ million less to jump ship then Jarvis purposely says this. ouch.
Casey- no one wants the truth-I know, it shocked me too. Please win the championship on your way out the door- next year looks to be more boring without you.
re: “We will have more about this in a future article.”
please don’t. can’t believe how in under 2 years, motogp’s become a soap opera of “he said/she said”. i don’t even recognize it any more…? for real racing and motor sport, i look to wsbk.
You’re are 100% right, Norm.
This has been the most boring and predictable MotoGP season I ever watched. Down to maybe 2 riders at the end of each race and several seconds ahead of the other ones.
So what do they do to get attention? They turn what used to be the best racing event into a soap opera so the dumb down public can relate. It sells a lot though and they make a lot of money by doing that. People love drama more than competitive racing. Stoner is just following orders, that’s all. Hope WSB doesn’t mimic this BS anytime soon or I will be watching Nascar.
I dunno. I look at it from a different perspective. No one can take away from Rossi what he’s been able to achieve, but Stoner was able to perform better on a bike that the G.O.A.T. could not win on.
I believe Rossi left Honda for Yamaha to prove it was the rider and not the bike that won championships, and his experiences on the Ducati proves that that isn’t necessarily true. Rossi left Yamaha for Ducati ’cause Lorenzo is viewed as the future of their GP plans and he failed to produce results.
So Stoner won a championship on a bike Rossi couldn’t. And he’s held his own against Lorenzo and the rest of the pack since Rossi left. And with the ration of unfair crap Stoner has had to take from ‘fans’, I don’t blame him for being bitter.
Rossi complains about his ride and it’s ‘with good reason’. Stoner complains and he’s ‘a whiner’.
Whatever.
Agreed. Rossi is a great rider but he is human – not the god people make him out to be.
It is important to note that Rossi has not ridden the same bike as Stoner. The bike Stoner won on is long gone.
I agree that Stoner is a better rider than Rossi today but comparing based on the factory they ride/rode for is unrealistic.
When stoner won on the Ducati the bike had certain advantages. We could se how much power the Ducati produced with the older regulations. With the regulations that are in place now the Ducati dosnt have the power advantage anymore. You cant compare Stoners Ducati with Rossis.
sure ya can…. stoner had wins…. rossi no wins… facts r facts… 😉
Well here’s some facts for you, Stoner’s record:
2007 10 wins
2008 6 wins
2009 4 wins
2010 3 wins
Some might call that a trend.
Now I very much believe that Stoner rode the hell out of an inferior bike for at least 2 of those years, and that Rossi has not ridden the hell out of his bike. For that alone, Stoner gets kudos. But I think Stoner left Ducati at juuuuust the right time to keep his “god on a desmosedici” status intact. Had he stayed another year, I think a winless season was a very real possibility.
All too true. However, wasn’t “80 second Jedi Master engineer Burgess” supposed to have made it better? Reversed the trend? With this help shouldn’t Rossi at least had, you know, ONE win? Given Jarvis’ comment and their offer to Rossi, maybe Yamaha thinks it knows something the Rossitisi don’t? Didn’t Stoner, on the unimproved, Burgess-free Ducati beat Rossi on the M1 at least a couple of times?
Fair play. If Burgess/Rossi were such gods of bike tuning (I don’t think they are) they should have been able to make that bike work. The 80 second comment was arrogant, and he will regret making it for some time to come. I do think that Burgess is perhaps a better than average tuner, but I do not afford him god-like status. I don’t think it’s fair to say he is the only failure here though, Ducati failed equally as hard (if not harder).
Stoner’s experience of a lack of development at Ducati has been pretty much echoed by Burgess/Rossi. In order to turn things around, I think a lot more needed to be done by Ducati. Furosawa brought 3-4 completely different engine specs and multiple frames for Rossi to test. Ducati brought Rossi a partial update to his engine management system that didn’t change much (because it was a partial fix) and they’re still running the same frame from pre-season testing. Ducati never even came close to matching the level of comittment Yamaha showed and that is why Ducati failed to right ther sinking ship. Who’s to say Burgess didn’t tell them exactly what needed to be done within 80 seconds, but was ignorred and/or contested? Remember, Yamaha ditched their favored 5 valve heads On Day One.
Back to Stoner for a moment… Do you remember qatar 2007? Ducati shocked the world and took victory on their first try at the 800’s. But do you remember the actual race? That bike tucked on the way into every corner, bucked in the middle of it, ran wide on the way outand then rocketed out with such ferocity that some questioned whether they were cheating. Stoner would lose 2 bike-lengths into and through every turn, and pull back 4 on the exit. They had an utterly bonkers engine, and a totally shite chassis. I don’t think much has changed in the next 5 years, except everyone else gradually sorted their engines, and Stoner’s steady decline shows this.
yeah and now you can compare 2002,2003,2004,2005,2008,2009 with whiner’s 2007 and 2011. What Hawk is saying about Ducati’s power advantages back in 2007 at the 800ccm shift is a known fact.
Stoner did not win in 2009, and 2010 with his “tamed” Ducati lol…”facts r facts”
Stoner- 29 Motogp wins on Ducati
Rossi- 0 Motogp wins on Ducati
If anybody was arrogant, it was Burgess with his 80 sec comment. On equal equipment, Rossi couldnt beat Hayden most of the time.
burgress sure ate his words… maybe he wanted to say 80 weeks.. not 80 seconds…
OMG!
You can’t be serious comparing a 2007 , 800ccm Ducati with a 2011/2012 1000ccm Ducati! LOL
Okay..
Rossi – 20 wins on Honda
Stoner – 14 wins on Honda
Sliding both ends of a 200+ HP beast thru a corner the way he does, Stoner is no pussy, traction control or not. He is just saying Rossi and Burgess berated him, for what? Capirossi won or was on the podium 16 times in ’06 and ’07 on the Ducati. Of course the Duc threw him and Stoner down the road many times too since they could not feel the limit. Stoner has enough wins in MotoGP to speak his mind. He has 37 wins. Nicky has 3. He cut his teeth living out of small trailers or wherever he could sleep. – I think, yeah he needs to look inward, but what is wrong with a man speaking his mind? – Rossi crashed the 125 and the 250 and the 500 GP bike a lot when he started, finding the limit. On the Duc he has largely stayed under the limit. It is an interesting story. Both sides make good points. Casey worked hard from a very young age. Cut the man some slack. – I was hoping Rossi would get back to Yamaha just to see him at the front again. It’ll be nice IF the Ducati gets better. But…IF…
Casey is making sure no one misses him when he’s gone. Show some grace and manners young man, you’re acting like a real prick.
yep – he’s got no class
I am gonna miss him.
First of all he is an excellent racer, surely one of the best of them all. Ha ain’t got no manner yes, but hey, he is an aussie..
Then again i would love to see Rossi beat the crap out of the guy on the tracks again. It was motogp’s finest moments when these two were battling for victory! Not to mention Stoner’s whining after the race! Comedy at it’s finest!!:)
Casey has no love for Val after that incident when Val took Casey’s bike from under him last year and it was a very reckless assault by Val at that particular time and position on Casey’s machine.
If my memory serves me correct, I believe Casey accused Val of “mixing up ambition with capabilities” when Val turned up after the race to offer his apologies with helmet still on.
He who has won more races and championships on a bike no other rider has been able to master get’s to say what he wants to about the other racers who failed to match his accomplishments. If Rossi wasn’t so adored by racing fans I doubt Stoner would say anything about his Ducati track record. I don’t recall Stoner ever bad mouthing any other Ducati racers in public. It is odd that Ducati can design race winners on other bikes but not in MotoGP unless just a certain Stoner is racing it.
I predicted years ago that Stoner would dominate before he actually did.
they both rode Ducatis – but not the same bike, so simplistic comparos aren’t much value. Stoner is just rubbing mud in VR’s eye
“I predicted years ago that Stoner would dominate before he actually did.”
Cool story bro! Somebody give Randy a medal!
No wonder you sympathize with Stoner….
9 NINE world championships, 3 THREE 2nd place finishes and 2 TWO 3rd place finishes since 1996. Valentino Rossi has already built his legacy, and if he falls off a bit in his later years, I’ll give him a pass. Bt I don’t think he’s finished yet.
rossi ain’t no G.O.A.T…. period
Errrrr … okay, I’ll bite. Who IS the GOAT? And why?
Agostini- 15 world championships- 122 wins-10 IOMTT wins. Rossi himself admits as much. True, Rossi dealt with more HP, but Ago in comparison had crap suspension and brakes and rode under far more dangerous conditions. Rossi- 9 world championships – 105 wins
Fair enough.
When Casey has come anywhere close to VR’s record I might be interested in his opinion. It’s easy to criticize when you won’t be around to be have to defend your words on the track when VR is back on a competitive bike.
Casey surely must be an embarrassment to Kel, Wayne and Mick.
I know he makes me glad I no longer live Down Under.
Granted, Stoner did well on the Ducatis while he was there, but is he really saying that the Ducati (since they first jumped back into GP) has been a bike that needed a good rider like him? The Duc has taken so many proven winners and flushed their careers right down the toilet. Rossi, Hayden, Melandri, Gibernau, Bayliss, Capirossi,…did I miss any? And lets not mention all the satellite Duc riders that have done nothing but throw it in reverse from the second the lights go out. I am glad that Stoner is leaving GP, so sick of his BS remarks. Go the F!@#$ home Moaner and drink some non-dairy milk you lactose intolerant pu$$y!
True!
You forgot Alex Barros, who also helped develop the Yamaha YZR-M1 (having riding Honda previously) just the year before Rossi first came to it.
Yah, I would have just titled this article, “Stoner really is a dick”
YEP.
Interesting comments from someone who is retiring … nothing to lose by not being candid. I have not read reports of Rossi complaining a lot about the bike, but maybe I just missed it. There is no debate that Stoner got better results out of the Duc. Could be it suited his riding style better.
Trust me, Rossi has complained about the bike… Many see whining in one where the same actions are the virtuous statement of facts in another… Human Nature.
Two Fantastic Riders doing what they do (Rivals, Rivalry, new concept in the last 50,000 years or so?), like the racing it’s easier to watch than to understand. In some ways these guys aren’t “Normal” People, it might be hard to “get” where they’re coming from.
complaining with good reason. It is well documented that the first year’s carbon frame did not have enough lateral suspension, now the aluminum one is not much better. The engine is too powerful, and their electronics are just not allowing the bike to be competitive. Complaining and telling it like it is are 2 different things. He’s offered solutions for 2 years, but their engineers are just unable to make a competitive bike. Even Nicky is not placing well. I see this quite differently. Who complains more? every public comment Stoner makes is negative. Look inward buddy.
Dont forget that before Rossi arrived at Yamaha, Yamaha didn’t have a Word Championship title since 10 years. It was his “complaining” (I would rather call it insight), that together with the engineers work made all the difference.
I have followed rossi’s comments in the past two years. He was always objective, and openly stated what he feels the bike is missing, what needs to be improved.