Why is it that motorcycles have almost exclusively employed manual transmissions as other forms of personal transportation, such as automobiles and scooters, have embraced automatics so completely? Why does a bike like the CTX700, with one of the most sophisticated automatics available on two wheels, receive smirks, and even derision, from some of motorcycling’s “old guard”?
Many years ago, Honda asked me to test its Silver Wing Scooter, a large, heavy and relatively powerful 600cc two wheeler that happened to fit within the scooter category and feature an automatic transmission. I essentially concluded that automatics don’t have to take away the fun associated with riding on two wheels, and can even provide an interesting new sensation to an old dog like myself.
Which brings us to the subject of this test, Honda’s 2013 CTX700. This bike comes with a standard six speed transmission, but we tested the optional version with Honda’s sophisticated automatic transmission and ABS brakes. Honda’s DCT (Dual Clutch Transmission) found in the CTX 700 is a second-generation design of a transmission technology introduced by Honda several years ago. It features six speeds and, by incorporating two clutches, it can pre-select the next gear for quick, almost seamless changes. Honda claims its second-generation design of this DCT results in a very light and efficient package that delivers an estimated 61 mpg.
The DCT can be used purely as an automatic in one of two modes, Drive or Sport. In “Drive”, the transmission focuses on fuel efficiency and upshifts at low rpm levels, and downshifts less aggressively while coming to a stop or entering corners. In “Sport” mode, the DCT hangs onto the gear as the revs rise for a more aggressive acceleration, and almost seems to read your mind as it downshifts aggressively while you attack a corner. Finally, you can turn off the automatic nature of the transmission and shift manually up and down with paddles adjacent to the left hand grip.
We found that the DCT performed as advertised. All of the options can be a bit confusing at first, but once you learn how to use it the DCT reacts quickly, and predictably.
A 670cc parallel-twin engine powers the CTX700, and it adequately moves Honda’s claimed curb weight of 516 pounds, although you won’t be winning many drag races against other motorcycles. Nevertheless, in town, particularly in Sport mode, you will dispatch most cages with ease. The bike launches aggressively off the line without any snatch or judder . . . just a quick, seamless escape. Likewise, the bike downshifts very quickly when you ride it aggressively to squirt through holes in traffic.
The CTX700 has fairly simple, non-adjustable suspension and only a single disc brake (with two-piston caliper) in front. Nevertheless, our bike stopped impressively short and sure, partly due to the very low center of gravity (you will feel the same sensation on some scooters). The added weight and placement of the DCT concentrates the mass of the bike very close to the ground, largely eliminating any squat under acceleration and dive under braking. The more even weight distribution under braking also allows the rear brake (also a disc) to do more of the work.
As you can see from the photos, the CTX700 has a very low seat height and forward-placed pegs. The seating position is reasonably comfortable, and the seat itself is firm enough to provide support for longer rides. The “feet forward” position does not appeal to everyone, but it somehow feels right on this particular bike. The weight distributed by the rider seems to balance the machine well, given the already unusual weight distribution resulting from the automatic transmission placement. The bars should be comfortably within reach for most riders, as well.
The CTX 700 has a long wheelbase, and does not turn in quickly. It is one of the most stable bikes I have ever ridden in a straight line, however, and the relatively wide bars make turns a low effort affair, if you don’t rush things too much. You can have some fun in the corners, although ground clearance becomes an issue too quickly.
The suspension settings chosen by Honda worked pretty well for our test riders, including one close to 200 pounds, and one approximately 160 pounds. I wouldn’t call the fork or the shock plush, but the fork soaks up big and small bumps without too much complaint. The shock, however, does feel like it is carrying too much unsprung weight . . . similar to the feeling you would get riding a scooter that mounts part of the engine/transmission on its swingarm.
If you are in the mood to relax and simply commuting, for instance, the automatic transmission is a nice feature. Wind protection at elevated speeds on the highway is adequate except at helmet level, where the ultra-short windscreen allows too much wind and buffeting. Among several other accessories, Honda offers a much taller windscreen (which you can see in one of the photos), although we did not get a chance to test it..
A small storage compartment above the gas tank is a nice feature, although it is small (allowing room for your wallet, gloves, or mobile phone, but not much else). Fuel capacity is 3.2 gallons, and we recorded 52 mpg during our test (riding the bike quite hard). This does not provide huge range, but a more relaxed right wrist could easily net 150 miles or so between visits to the gas station.
Accessorized CTX700
Honda recognizes that the CTX700 DCT ABS offers some natural appeal to beginners. In one of its brochures, it makes the case fairly plainly: “While clutch manipulation and shifting are second nature to experienced motorcycle riders, some potential new riders find that mastering these steps can be intimidating at first – enough to cause them to walk away from the sport before they’ve even begun.” DCT is Honda’s answer to this problem.
But can the CTX700 DCT ABS, with it’s U.S. MSRP of $8,799, offer an attractive alternative to some experienced motorcyclists, as well? We think it can. Those riders who are looking for a relaxed, comfortable commuter, that can still be fun in the twisties, might be candidates, particularly if they no longer feel the need for excessive horsepower. The CTX 700 is a bike that feels lighter due to its extremely low center of gravity, and as a result does provide plenty of entertainment together with ease of use. These days, however, $8,799 will find many alternative, higher performance machines that will likely steer the “old guard” away from this unique motorcycle. For additional details and specifications regarding the 2014 Honda CTX700 DCT ABS, visit Honda’s web site.
Well all I am their target audience. I went through the Motorcycle safety course and rode my Stepsons Shadow a few times. I may not be the most cordinated person in the world but I did drive heavy trucks with manual transmisions in my Army days and have at least a million miles logged as a driver. Any way I cocluded that trying to get use to a clutch while trying to figure out how to keep balance as well was too much like work. I never bought a bike because I wanted something that was more relaxing/fun and less like work and required less thinking. After all I thought this was about having fun. If I wanted to be stressed out I could have just gone to work instead.
I decided I was out till they made a automatic that looked like a Cruiser. Sorry but hanging out with Legion Riders with a scooter would be like….. well lets just say I would get more respect driving my cage. I guess I will have to swing by the Honda dealer and think about this.
Thank you Honda for tying again. Sorry but the DNO-1 was just to weird looking and it never felt comfortable to me.
Reminds me of a canister vacuum cleaner I once owned.
The negative comments about this motorcycle don’t surprise me. I long ago realized that although motorcyclists like to see themselves as free thinking individualists, when it comes to voting with their pocketbook, they buy a variation of what everybody else is buying. Nothing particularly wrong with doing that, except when something truly innovative arrives, it is often times unfairly criticized, or dismissed, and ultimately ignored in the market place by current riders (although this could be attributed to weak manufacturer support and promotion). Selling motorcycles the last 40 years has largely been a case of ‘preaching to the choir’, which is partially responsible for the lack of entry level riders. Two of my motorcycles are automatics, a Vespa 250GTV and a VFR1200DCT and I am a big fan, particularly the DCT. Other than my dirt bike (maybe add a hand clutch?), I would gladly add this technology to most all of my other machines. Addressing the needs of new and potential riders will be far more important than Bigger/Faster/Lighter/ETC, which plays every new model season like a broken record. Even new entry level machines are evaluated by the public and the press with the same old yardstick – witness the now ‘inferior’ CBR250 vs the ‘All New’ Ninja 300. Open your minds – it’s time to open this club to new members – which will help support new ‘Record-Breaking machines.
pretty much all the Billions of existing riders started on a manual motorcycle (except the few Hondamatic and Guzzi Convert beginners), I don’t see why that is no longer viable. OK, go ahead and get this as your beginner bike, then what do you get when you’ve grown out of this one? Riders will have to learn to shift eventually if they want to not be limited to a couple different bikes.
Very well thought out post Wayne. I happen to agree with you, it’s too bad that many current riders seem so locked into what their idea of the “perfect” bike should be and really can’t see beyond that. There’s lots to enjoy in motorcycling. Just like thumper addicts who insist there’s nothing better, or those that feel two cylinders are what makes the best bikes. Unbending in their preference and yet we have threes, fours, fives, sixes, all with their own flavors. And that’s just the engine! Where would Baskin-Robbins be if there were only vanilla?
We all have our preferences, does that mean I’m right and the next guy’s got it all wrong? I almost pulled the trigger on a VFR1200, the DCT intrigued me. For all the panning it received by the outspoken I understand their owners love ’em. Isn’t that what it’s all about?
I liked your observation between the CBR250R and Ninja 300. I looked at it as Kawasaki using the now in vogue marketing technique of bumping displacement out of established class to gain enough extra performance over the Honda (in particular) to make it stand out, but of course for extra money. Well I’ll see your 300 and raise you 500! One can play that game all day long. Which is the correct answer? Should there be a correct answer? I don’t think so. As long as the rider enjoys him/herself should be what counts.
The negative comments about this motorcycle don’t surprise me. I long ago realized that although motorcyclists like to see themselves as free thinking individualists, when it comes to voting with their money, they buy what everybody else is buying. Nothing particularly wrong with doing that, except when something truly innovative arrives, it is often times unfairly criticized, or dismissed, and ultimately ignored in the market place by existing riders (although this could be attributed to weak manufacturer support and promotion). Selling motorcycles the last 40 years has largely been a case of ‘preaching to the choir’, which is partially responsible for the lack of entry level riders. Two of my motorcycles are automatics, a Vespa 250GTV and a VFR1200DCT and I am a big convert, particularly to the DCT. Other than my dirt bike, I would gladly add this technology to most all of my other machines. done ad finitum. Addressing the needs of new and potential riders will be far more important than Bigger/Faster/Lighter/ETC has and is being done. Even new entry level machines are evaluated by the public and the press with the same yardstickfind it Open your minds – it’s time for the future.
Well put, Wayne. I’ve had a few bikes in my 50+ years. I don’t own a car anymore. I think the VFR1200DCT I now own works pretty well, although noisy in “D” mode at low speeds. I also owned the FSC600 scooter and think it’s one of the most fun and useful pieces of transportation around.
Those accessory panniers can’t hold much more than a friggin’ sandwich. I guess Honda wanted to keep the ugly theme intact.
Dear Honda:
Please remove this monstrosity and bring back the 1976 CB360T.
A former customer
They did, but now it’s called the CB1100.
The CB1100 is the CB750 resurrected – sort of. A CB360 with modern brakes and suspension and maybe a little stiffer frame would be an ideal entry/commuter bike. Somewhere along the line product planners at Honda decided that the solution to every problem was more technology and plastic. Sometimes less is more.
Que pasa con Honda???
Norm G. says:
June 11, 2013 at 5:27 am
Q: “And how did we get to a point where a $9,000 bike is considered a budget bike?”
A: I tender to you this is NOT a rhetorical question, but in fact a less complex, but far more omnipresent reason exists. we just don’t want to know it…
INFLATION.
No, Norm…actually the biggest reason for rising Japanese bike prices is the change in the yen/$ rate. Just think what these bikes could be selling for if the $ still bought 360 yen, not just 100 yen (with the $ dipping into the 70s for several months). Honda is to be commended for bringing in this bike at this price.
I like this bike. I like the new Honda F6B too.
I’m going to concur with others who have stated that this bike is indeed…fugly. Reminds me of their failed DN-01 from a few years ago. I don’t see this bike as having a demographic. It will sell in poor numbers, and be discontinued, and be collected by a few freaky individuals in future years who will sing it’s praises to their graves! Lol
Lol, spot on. Remember the old Katana that was kind of ugly? That thing is followed by a cult.. maybe that is what you are refering to.
Google “Akira Bike” and it will give you some insight into the Japanese bike companies unique styling influence, Anime. Also “Kamen Rider” will give you some more clues. Pretty much the “when in doubt throw some more plastic on it” school of styling.
re: “But on street bikes, where you need to finely adjust the amount of thrust you get at very low speeds, in order to balance the bike in turns”
With any auto system the engine is not rigidly connected to the primary drive. It’s just as easy to modulate the throttle (or handlebar) to achieve what you’re proposing.
Race bikes already do have paddle shifting, the paddle is just in the same place as our conventional shifter. They up and down shift without ever touching the clutch after the start.
So where’s this new revolutionary Yammy?
I like it.
Kind of looks like a HD FLHC made out with a scooter.
I think many city folks or newbies will like the bike. I would like to try one. Heck I ride a Yamaha MT-01, but can appreciate something new.
Besides, my past 3 or 4 test rides, I noticed that my first impression was wrong! Though I would love bike A: hated it. Thought I would hate bike B: loved it.
Would like to read comments from people that have actually riden the bike. I mean I have an opinion on many things…. In time i find out I was incorrect: I don’t tell anyone. It’s a growing experience;-)
I love the MT-01.. on my bucket list
fugly
is your openning question rhetorical? automatics on motorcycles are treated skeptically by “old guard” enthusiats for the same reason they are thought of as granny trannies in cars by driving enthusiats. if you want to daydream along, put an auto on your barcalunger and stay out of the way! p.s. it is ugly
Auto enthusiasts more often purchase DCTs these days from BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, etc.
Comparing this to a Ferrari, Prosche or BMW is a little bit of a stretch. If that sexy new MV listed a couple days ago had a DCT then that might be a more beliveable comparison.
Those cars offer DCT because it can fire off shifts much quicker than even a perfect driver. Maybe this can too.. but something tells me the buyer of this is not trying to shave nano-seconds off his shifting.
He is a new-to-the-sport guy/girl that is anxious to enjoy the world on two wheels, without having to learn how to shift. I say welcome!!
Just like Toyota introducing a new Corolla does nothing to hinder my enjoyment of a Vette, I don’t see why a new ugly and slow bike would hinder my enjoyment of my bike of choice. Not my cup of tea, but there a lots of cars, movies, vegetables and sexual persuasions that I don’t care for in the world and that doesn’t stop me from enjoying driving fast, watching explosions, eating red meat and a little boy/girl hanky-panky now and then.
I just wish Honda would treat us old-timer performance guys with some candy now and again.. I feel like I have been cast off for the new-guy in school, everything they introduce lately is for the “new” rider. I walked into my Honda dealer and almost fell into a coma.. boring. I’m not feeling any love.. and after all the Honda’s I have owned over the years!
Throw the Superhawk 998 motor in a supermoto, put the 700cc quad motor in a 300lb XR650R/L replacement, drop 100lbs and add 30Hp and trick suspension to the 700X for a Tiger/GS beater. Something.. come on Honda you’ve wooed the new people enough now throw us long-time fans a bone!
Not comparing, just pointing out that the comment about enthusiast auto drivers always choosing a manual transmission is no longer accurate.
Fair enough!
Beauty is as beauty does, ugly is as ugly does. I used to think the Versys was the ugliest thing I’d ever seen, until I bought one. Now it’s gorgeous. I wanted a street bike, mainly for touring, that I didn’t have to baby, or polish at the end of a long day. Just wipe the bugs off the windshield the next morning and hit the road. Honda hopes to sell this bike as a touring bike, and that’s how I’d like to see where it stacks up. The Versys is fast, but rarely do I take advantage of it. For me, it’s the midrange that benefits me. There are other factors involved in touring that determine how well a bike will do, and you just have to live them to make that evaluation.
For example, how well will it do in heavy crosswinds? I deal with that all the time on the highway. What’s the range at real world touring speeds (45 mph to 70 mph) on two lane highways? How well does it do with 100 lb. of stuff? Can you pass a truck, going uphill, in top gear?
More often than not, an average touring day will have delays: road construction, your buddy’s bike breaks down, the restaurant took too long with lunch, whatever. Maybe you pull into town and the campground is full, or you can’t find a hotel that isn’t a bed-bug breeding ground. You’re tired, hungry and just want to get settled in for the night. On days like that, you’ve either had enough, or you’re looking forward to tomorrow’s adventure. And that’s when you know if the bike is a beauty, or a beast.
As far as handling goes, my last bike was a 750 cruiser. It was a slug, and handled like one as well. But eventually, after having gotten to know the bike well, the twisties became a non-issue, and I was able to run it through curves, fully loaded, faster, and safer, that I’d ever thought possible. I love the way Versys handles by comparison, but once again, it’s not a deal maker/breaker.
What I’m saying here is I’d like to see the CTX700 tested as a true touring bike and see just how well, or badly it does. I’ve learned my lesson, thanks to my Versys, and I’ll never use an ugly meter to judge a bike again.
it’s not for me. it’s ugly. if you can’t ride a bike with a manuel you should’nt be on a bike in the first place.
So by your reasoning if you can’t spell, capitalize or punctuate basic sentences you shouldn’t be commenting?
thanks! classic…
Well said.
Sorry …got too long winded, make mine a standard.
Not long-winded at all. Standards are the most underdeveloped style of them all. Yet they have so much potential.
I prefer the look the and low weight of the CB500X, I only hope that Honda loses
the orange instrument lights and flat black non paint. I would buy an F model but amazingly the center stand is not an option! A chain drive motorcycle without a center stand is nuts. I am glad to see Honda at least trying to give us more choices in rides
verses sport bike or cruiser. I don’t like laying down on a bike forwards or backwards.
Make mine a
Having briefly ridden a VFR1200 and Yamaha FJR1300 with auto trans, the one fly in the ointment for me was the lack clutch lever. With the big power of these bikes I really missed the extra degree of control offered by the friction zone modulation of a conventional gearbox, especially in tight turns and parking lots m
…sorry about typos from my over-sensitive keyboard.
Also having ridden maxi scooters with about half or less power than the big bikes, the lack of a clutch was much lees of an issue for me. I wonder if this lightly powered 700 has similar feel?
Tom, I know exactly what you mean. The FJR “automatic” was particularly difficult without a real clutch…juddering to a stop, and again when leaving a stop. The CTX does not have this problem, at all. The way it accelerates from a stop, in particular, is very impressive. Both quick and smooth.
My wife owns the NC700X DCT ABS. Her first bike and comforting to her that she doesn’t need to learn to shift AND balance at the same time. It’s really nice to always have your wife asking if you want to ride the bikes today. And in defense of the DCT, in congestion and stop and go traffic, IMHO, the DCT is the way to go.
Judging by the comments, we ain’t gonna be see’in too many of these on the streets of America. Perhaps they will sell in Europe?
If the bike reaches the intended audience then it won’t be visible in the comments on this board. Like other auto shifters Honda are hoping to reach new riders, not us crusty old guys.
Well, I guess it’s time to hitch a ride on one before passing final judgement on it. That’s the way it is with most bikes anyway, no matter how beautiful or not to someone. There are a number of bikes over the years that don’t push any special buttons on looks for me and yet have a relatively large fan base.
A few years back I had major foot surgery and it was my left foot. Being a rider for almost 50 years had me worrying about my ability to shift on my bikes, let alone walk well. It really rather scared me. The thought of giving up riding just didn’t compute. I do alright now but with more limited foot movement it’s been a chore and does not come without some thought which takes some of the joy away. Shifting becomes second nature after awhile when first starting to ride. I lost some of that. So the DCT tranny does get my attention. I do hope it finds its way into more models as it’s easy for me to see that not all might want to manually shift and for more reasons than just being new to riding.
This is so bland it makes white bread seem tasty by comparison. The only explanation for the riding position and the DCT is as the step-up “bike” for the younger set I see riding around in packs riding ruckuses (rucki?). Many of them seem to love the concept of zombies, which as we all know, have no souls, making this bike a perfect fit.
Am I the only one who is made uncomfortable by the typical accusations of no soul made about bikes? Almost without exception, such a negative label is used against Japanese bikes or other bikes from Asia, never a bike from Europe or, God forbid, one from America – evidently, the heart and soul capital of the world. Isn’t the subtle implication the Western ethnocentric view that only people with soul can make corresponding bikes with soul – and of course, only Western people and their descendants, Anglo Americans, naturally, are human enough to have acceptable levels of such soul.
Such comments remind me of the scene from “The Planet of the Apes” when the the Ape leader pries open the mouth of Mark Walberg looking for whether he has a soul or not, claiming that it is nearly impossible for a creature as lowly and filthy as a human to be blessed with such a magical ingredient as “Soul”. I guess the motorcycle equivalent of this analogy is to get out the flashlight and look down the air box or up the tail pipe, looking for whether we can see a soul in the dang two wheeled machine.
Look, I don’t know whether this bike has soul or not, not having ridden one, but isn’t it at least possible that some degree of Western ethnocentrism and jealousy is playing a bit part in such accusations. If a European manufacturer or an American one had the technical wizardry to be the first to release this SOA tech, I doubt if it would have garnered as many negative comments as we have seen on this board so far. Imagine if a good ‘ole, red, white, blue, American company like Harley had come out with this tech first, rather than Honda? Do you think this new, groundbreaking piece of tech might have received a slightly better reception on these boards? Yep, I think so. Even if Harley had offered it as a 5K option, rather than a 1K as Honda has done, I suspect people on this board would still be hooting and hollering about what a great piece of tech it is and how it is still worth every penny.
And the naysayers? Well, they probably would have just held their lip and just said nothing if they had nothing positive to say at all. But replace Harley with a foreign, Japanese manufacturer and, boy, how the tune changes – even when they are doing people a favor and offering this new tech for just pennies on the dollar. 1K for this tech is just to cheap. Essentially, Honda is giving groundbreaking stuff away and yet people are still griping about it. There has got to be a reason for it, one that is not rational.
That was some rant. No American exceptionalism or racism here, I don’t like that either. I’ve never owned a Harley and about 90% of the 30 or so bikes I’ve owned in my life have been, you guessed it, Japanese. I have serious hero worship for Soichiro Honda. His life is quite a story.I believe he made both the auto and motorcycle industries suck it up and make better products for all of us. But I will stick with my original assessment of THIS bike. Personallly I think it would be better if we could joke a bit about our opinions without the need for explanations.
well said
A nice scooter, but it lacks the capabilities of the Pacific Coast.
I always thought that the Suzuki Burgman maxi scooter would be a great all-round tourer if it had bigger wheels. This looks like it would fit the description, but it’s such a shame there’s no built-in storage like the Burgman, or the benefits of leg protection and multiple foot placement that the maxi scooter offers.
I appreciate Honda’s boldness in bringing us this model range and I wish them the best in finding a market niche, but for me I’d go the maxi scooter route if I were to get something in this style.
Obviously this bike was not made for current riders, unless the only reason they ride is to save $/time instead of driving a car. There is nothing about it that suggests going thru corners at a good clip is important, let alone real acceleration to go with that idea. Like other’s have said, this is a bike for current car drivers, not current MC riders.
So Honda offers a very sophisticated automatic transmission that also includes an extremely effective paddle shifting capability (road testers have raved about it in the NC700X). All in affordable packages that will appeal to newbie cruiser fans (CTX) and adventure bike lovers (NC700X).
Shame on you Honda, bad Honda!
BTW, Porsche and Ferrari seem to think paddle shifting is the new standard, but what they heck do they know about high-performance motoring, right?
the Porsche is a great looking high performance design. its not the technology as much as not stimulating any excitement whatsoever!
Paddle shifting in sports cars and race cars makes sense. It might even make sense in race motorcycles. But on street bikes, where you need to finely adjust the amount of thrust you get at very low speeds, in order to balance the bike in turns, the lack of a clutch could be a disaster.
Also, having the control of a clutch is just a lot of fun. I’d never buy a bike with paddles for that reason, and I’d never buy a car with paddles either. Or a car with an automatic transmission.
I don’t know. I have managed so far to ride a few scooters without falling over, despite their lack of clutch… but if you are concerned, you can always put this DCT into a manual mode. I took a test ride on Integra scooter which uses the same transmission (this model is not available in the US) and I liked it a lot. Works well enough in auto mode, and in manual mode shifting with paddles is actually fun!
Now, now Andrew, don’t spoil things by speaking from ACTUAL EXPERIENCE! Tossing around purely speculative comments is the focus of this thread!
Just sat on one at the dealer today.
Fit and finish is typically great Honda.
Bars are about where they were on my 96 Magna.
Pegs are much farther forward. Could be a problem for shorter riders.
Tiny storage area and attendant access to storage would have been more useful as an extra 1/2 gallon or so of fuel.
Felt lighter than 500 pounds.
Overall I liked it. Going to ask for a test ride later.
re: “Overall I liked it. Going to ask for a test ride later.”
excellent. report back when cash has changed hands.
So his impressions from a test ride don’t matter, his opinion of the bike only counts if he actually buys it?
Gosh, by that standard all of the opinions rendered in this thread are irrelevant.
Oh wait… 😉
re: “So his impressions from a test ride don’t matter, his opinion of the bike only counts if he actually buys it?”
basically. you and I both know talk is cheap. it takes money to buy land.
OK, so maybe it isn’t the best looking bike in the world. At least Honda is trying something different. I’ve had my fill of Harley clones and sport bikes that can go 150 mph. Now bring back the CB750 with hydraulic valves.
This is so (ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ). I don’t know why Honda keeps cropping up bikes that are like this. Honda has this negative little corporate neurosis that insists on devoting a certain amount of resources to ugly slow bikes that appeal to maybe one out of 100 riders.
I repeat, this bike is as significant as the CB’s of their day. Just as the efficiency, reliability, and low cost of the in-line 4 revolutionized bikes back then, this auto tranny will do the same. It is so easy to see. Can’t believe most are so blind to it.
Yes, the bike is not exactly pretty, but this was obviously Honda’s intent. Hey, this is a do everything bike with a state of the art tranny and hi-tech, high mpg engine for only 9,000 bucks. If Honda styled this bike more attractively, then who the hell would want to buy anything more expensive at a latter date. There is a reason why inexpensive auto’s are styled with less care than their more expensive siblings – it’s the auto industry’s way of telling you that if you want the style you are going to have to spend more dough. They are going to give away style for free, you know.
re: “If Honda styled this bike more attractively, then who the hell would want to buy anything more expensive at a latter date…”
(that blade cuts both ways)
…or, who the hell would want to buy the thing in the first place…?
(double edged sword this)
Honda believes even with this handicap, this bike will still sell to an acceptable degree, to the degree it desires. As someone already mentioned, if Honda wanted to sell as many bikes as it possibly could, then it would offer this DCT in their new 500’s and sell these bikes like hotcakes.
Honda is just a different sort of motorcycle company. Sure, it tries to sell enough bikes to keep its dealerships open, but it obvious has other things in mind than simply selling the most bikes it could. Bike making seems like it is more of a hobby for Honda than a cold blooded, completely practical minded, money making endeavor.
re: “As someone already mentioned, if Honda wanted to sell as many bikes as it possibly could, then it would offer this DCT in their new 500′s and sell these bikes like hotcakes.”
which would then shift these vehicles out of their price point defeating the whole purpose of their existence. so no they’re not going to do that. hotcake out of pan, onto kitchen floor. ftr neither the 500’s nor 250’s are selling like “hotcakes”. not in this market anyway.
re: “I don’t know why Honda keeps cropping up bikes that are like this.”
neither does the dealer network.
When its accessorized, it kinda looks ok. For some reason, it reminds me of the Pacific Coast (a cult bike)
I think the Honda design team got all distressed by that outrageously wild bike, the Deauville, having far too much character with its v-twin engine and, like y’know, gears that you have to actually change yourself. They decided on this design so that the most neglected motorcycle-buying demographic – those people with absolutely no interest in motorcycles – can finally buy a bike that suits their needs.
Perfect!
Sorry to say, but Honda believes it knows you better than you know yourself. All macho riders say they want to shift and enjoy the interaction between man and machine, but Honda obviously believes that deep down most riders regard shifting old style as a pain in the ass, at least some of the time.
As someone who started on a motorcycle and then experienced the joys of shiftlessness on a mega-scooter, once this auto tranny catches on (and it will) there simply will be no going back. More and more people will finally admit the truth about their man and machine relationship, want a divorce, and and join the rest of us non-macho people and demand an auto tranny. Manual transmission will slowly go the way of the kick starter.
“the joys of shiftlessness”. I like that phrase.
In a sense I agree Jake, but I think that battery technology for electric bikes will have improved enough by that time that gearboxes will be largely obsolete anyway. Certainly on bikes like this, anyway. This bike is crying out for an electric motor with a (as yet undesigned) battery that will give it a +200km range.
re: “All macho riders say they want to shift and enjoy the interaction between man and machine”
wait, is that a “macho” thing…? or is that simply a greater than 90% reality of the experience…?
re: “Honda obviously believes that deep down most riders regard shifting old style as a pain in the ass”
again let’s take a step back from reaching. if “most” is what they believed…? then logic dictates this technology WOULD be offered on high penetration/legacy models like the wing, the blade, the shadow, etc. you don’t need to incur the risk/expense of R&D and manufacturing A WHOLE MODEL, when an option code and check box will do.
Give Honda some time. I don’t know about an out and out sport bike, but in time this DCT tech will be available on most of their models.
Logic can go many ways. It makes no sense for Honda to spend the money to develop a ground breaking tranny if its only intent was to use it in their inexpensive, beginner models.
This is Honda’s deal. They know they have a game changer with this DCT, one which will change biking forever. They are deciding the pace of change. Bikers can be a stubborn lot. Honda has bet big that eventually in time the DCT will win most bikers over.
Yeah, well, Honda believed that we’d buy Runes, DN-01’s, Ascots, Hawk GT’s and HondaMatics. How’s that working out for them?
That is one silly looking bike, and the ergos make the pilot look just as silly riding on it. I am sure plenty of people think it is a work of art, though, so to each his own.
And how did we get to a point where a $9,000 bike is considered a budget bike? So sad. 🙁
“And how did we get to a point where a $9,000 bike is considered a budget bike? So sad.”
Since the Fed’s so called quantitative easing for the past decade or so. The dollar just ain’t worth what it used to be. A 9,000 dollar bike probably is the equivalent of a 5 or 6K bike 5 or 6 years ago.
Q: “And how did we get to a point where a $9,000 bike is considered a budget bike?”
A: i tender to you this is NOT a rhetorical question, but in fact a less complex, but far more omnipresent reason exists. we just don’t want to know it…
INFLATION.
what that means is, even if by some herculean ability (read magic) one WAS able to neutralize the myriad of other factors dictating item cost…? the price of the “item you love” was always (and is always) going to go up.
this doesn’t sit well with the psyche. see entry for stamps, a gallon of gas, quart of milk, etc. these items we don’t have any particular affinity for so they sneak under the radar (well maybe not fuel).
brace yourselves, the next info may come as a shock…
motorbikes aren’t any more EXEMPT from market forces than any of the aforementioned sundry items. motorbikes aren’t special. we just liked “thinking” that they would be. we’ve been living in a dream world neo.
Motorcycle volume is also shrinking here in the US, which can’t help with the landed cost of them.
The bigger problem is that generally people’s earnings haven’t climbed with inflation so a $9k bike is a $9k bike, not a $5-6k bike from 5-6 years ago so far as the buyer is concerned.
The biggest reason is the change in the yen/$ rate. Just think what these bikes could be selling for if the $ still bought 360 yen, not just 100 (after dipping into the 70s for several months). Honda is to be commended for bringing in this bike at this price.
Those narrow panniers would not meet my needs. At least use some leather saddle bags to attract the American market. And, maybe use pegs in the standard position, along with highway pegs. I like to be able to move my legs.
Oh, please. I just bought a Road King.
?
Handsome is as handsome does. I ride (when I can) an old sort-of adventure type bike based on a Suzuki DR650SE (not sold in America) but with a proper seat, lower suspension, and a fairing. The half fairing causes a lot of turbulence against my legs, like being beaten lightly with a stick. Although I love the long travel suspenders and superb handling, this new Honda looks like the “floating barca lounger” of my dreams, drifting along in calm, peaceful air, relaxing along the highway. No gear shifts so my toes can just sit there, nice steady progress so my mind can unwind. The ride position would probably require a rest every hour or so, time to gas up anyway. Perfect for destressing. On other days when I’m feeling a bit more aggressive, maybe a sport bike of some stripe. Hey, it’s my dream, I can have what I want.
can live with the wave runner tail, but gotta lose that upper. reminds me more than a lil’ bit of the defunct K12RS. I say this because that thing didn’t do well either.
1. Why go to all that trouble to design a complex plastic fairing and then put a miniscule flyscreen on it that buffets your helmet?
2. Feet-forward without floorboards is awkward – your feet are too locked in…
3. Put floorboards on it, a tall realistic usable windscreen to keep the sand out of your face, and some panniers, and you might have something…
As-is it seems doofus…
Q: Why go to all that trouble to design a complex plastic fairing and then put a miniscule fly screen on it that buffets your helmet?”
(note, I’ve already covered this.)
A: ’cause then what would the dealer have to sell you from the genuine accessories catalog…? see entry for next to last pic from the bottom.
Butt ugly and stillborn. Nuff said.
When I see this bike I want to run, not walk, the other way.
This will sell in huge numbers, just like the CB750A and 400 Hondamatic, not to mention the wildly successful VFR version…
Really, it takes all of a few hours to learn how to ride a motorcycle with a manual transmission. Millions of people have been doing it since day one. Why do we assume it’s more difficult to master now?
I believe cars have automatic transmissions because it allows the driver to hold a hot cup of coffee in the morning – or apply makeup, use the phone, etc. Those typically aren’t the behaviors of the average rider.
People buy scooters because they are cheap and are not motorcycles, not because they are automatic. If you look at the highest-ever selling scooter, the Vespa, it used a manual transmission!
This bike will need to appeal to consumer’s taste buds. If they don’t like the look of it then forget it – auto tranny or not.
re: “This bike will need to appeal to consumer’s taste buds. If they don’t like the look of it then forget it – auto tranny or not.”
and there it is. packaging is job 1. same as choosing a mate, we are visual creatures. a woman’s ability to cook or a man’s ability to change a flat tire are not, repeat NOT what triggers the first date.
Tenet Nosce, Know Thy Self. (oracle voice)
This “new” bike reminds me of Honda’s DN-01…which, according to some dealers, stands for “Do Not Order One”.
OMG-No chrome!!! No wonder the haters hate it.
no… we hate it because its freakin ugly!
Agree with the person who said Honda hit a homerun with this thing. This has got to be the most innovative bike I have seen since…well forever. A bike that can do it all (with a full fairing), a low seat, with a state of the art auto tranny (one not even available in the most expensive of bikes costing 3 or 4 times as much), high mpg – all this for less than 9,000 in today’s dollars. Are you kidding me? Only an idiot with no foresight and his head stuck up his butt would ridicule a bike like this.
This is a groundbreaking bike. Certainly in a different way but this bike is as significant as the CB750 was in its day. Get over its looks already. This bike along with the Dn-1 will be revered as classics in due time, as forerunners to a whole new generation of bikes and bikers.
And no, I am in now way affiliated with the Honda marketing dept.
“And no, I am in now way affiliated with the Honda marketing dept.”
Wow… you should go apply Jake. Honda needs people like you.
For a bevy of reasons, I’ll give it a ‘meh’.
re: “this bike is as significant as the CB750 was in its day.”
okay, i gotta put a stop to this. now you’re reaching. 🙂
You are just trolling – you are, right?
trolls…? sorry not into the whole sci-fantasy genre. I do sci-reality.
Testicles not included or required.
I think we already knew women can ride this bike, as well.
Look at my comment again you’ll see I was suggesting this is a girl’s bike in the first place.
FYI, two important points that people seem to be unaware of:
1) DCT w/ABS is also available in the highly-regarded NC700X adventure-style bike, at a retail price of $8499.
2) There is a “naked” version of the CTX (known as the CTX700N) with DCT and ABS which retails for $7999. It is quite a bit better looking than the faired CTX, though still no beauty queen.
Yes, the CTX700 is ugly, but it is hardly the only option for someone who is intrigued by DCT.
All was good till the 3.2 gal thing, WTH 3.2 gals? On any long trips you’ll always be looking for gas stations. I think this bike will flop, but i’ll buy one when the price drops to $4600.00 OTD.
The bike gets 62MPG which translates into about a 200 mile range
So, how about a 324 mile range from a five gallon gas tank?
Where is it written that 200 miles is all a motorcycle should go?
Put a five gallon tank on a model and call it the ‘Ranger’!
Nowhere, but your butt mileage is often less!
I guess it is the very low seat height and Honda build quality that will make this bike attractive to some.
who gets a Vanson without the shoulder patch???
Motorcycles come and go – but a Vanson Leather is Forever!
Me, I don’t like the oval patches, or any patches for that matter.
“patches… we don’t need no stinkin’ patches”. (insert federale accent here)
let me guess…you don’t even own one
Gee, this bike doesn’t seem to appeal to the boomers lost in fond reminisces of the wonderful bikes of the 1970s…exactly the market this bike isn’t aimed at. I take the negative responses as a good sign, funny how blind people are to their own fossilization after the age 40. I don’t know whether this bike will succeed or not, but it won’t have anything to do with the folks on this board.
Totally agree. Amazing how one spoiled brat generation thinks they can define everything. This bike is the right bike for right now.
You may be correct in your comment. However, using my experience of the history of new ideas coming from the various manufactures, especially Honda, let me offer an opinion. Automatic transmissions have been offered before and have never caught on, except in scooters. I’ve never heard anyone state the reason they didn’t get into motorcycles was because they couldn’t figure how to shift gears and operate the clutch. Usually the excuse is not wanting to ride in traffic. Many dirt-bike only riders will never ride on the street for fear of a collision with a SUV. Some people don’t ride because they can’t control themselves, and know it. Honda has a history of making bikes that don’t sell really well, like the Pacific Coast, the Hawk GT, the GB500, the Rune, and others. I hope this bike does well, I wish all of the motorcycles offered sold well. I think the CB1100 and the new 500cc twins will sell great. This one I’m not sure, but I will be keeping an open mind. (Your second sentence, aimed at me actually, encourages me to think outside the box. Thanks!)
Hmmm, so aside from the wind on yer helmet, how did it perform on the interstate?
This bike will not sell in any significant numbers on these shores. It will die on the vine and, like someone said earlier, Honda will then conclude that its lack of popularity had to do with the auto tranny.
Nope. The problem here is that this is two diametrically opposed concepts in one bike, and those opposites tend to loathe one another. It’s the most unfortunate combination ever: a plastic-wrapped cruiser. Cruiser riders tend to despise plastic anything, and many riders of bikes with full fairings think cruisers and the whole feet-forward riding position is nothing but an anti-function joke of a fashion statement. With this bike we see the worst of both types, the result likely alienating both buyers.
Although I have no desire for one, there is nothing wrong with the auto tranny concept. Honda just needs to apply it to the proper type of bikes. A VFR is not the right test mule. An underpowered cruiser that looks like a tube of toothpaste…ditto.
It belongs on a Goldwing, or the FB6, or the next version of the ST1300.
This bike? It’s way too bulky-appearing and just plain goofy-looking to appeal to first-time buyers who are typically driven almost solely by the lure of the motorcycle aesthetic, of which this bike has no real benchmark. It doesn’t look like anything they ever imagined themselves riding, and that will seal its fate.
I think you are correct. I would add this. The newbie riders seem to like cruisers. That is where I think this tranny could be best implemented.
Hmmmm, You make a good point until you suggest where they should have placed the DCT and then you jump the shark IMO. If I were a brand new rider who’s afraid of the manual transmission I wouldn’t want a $20,000 scooter like the DN-01 nor this ugly $10,000 (after taxes, financing, bs dealer fees) mess of plastic and cheap parts bin components(nor an expensive 1300 or gigantic and even more expensive GW). Now if they can manage to put the DCT in a CBR500R at a reasonable price the streets of California will look like the streets of India or Vietnam in no time.
re: “If I were a brand new rider who’s afraid of the manual transmission”
it’s been my experience, human beings don’t jump over hurdles to do things they fear. brand new riders don’t fear manual transmission, they are INTRIGUED by the manual transmission and relish the challenge of mastering it.
anybody who fears manual transmissions, likely fears the entire concept of motorcycle riding itself. you know what we call those people…? car drivers.
Does it matter if they drive with a stick?
You said it well. I was slightly excited about a decent bike with an automatic. I have aging arthritic hands and carpal tunnel and could use all the help I can get to keep riding. Don’t like the forward controls!
DCT is also available in the adventure-style NC700X.
… which is also hideous.
touché.
although the lines of the NC are vastly more appealing than this MkII DN-01.
re: “I have aging arthritic hands and carpal tunnel and could use all the help I can get to keep riding.”
no offense, but maybe you DON’T need help. it’s okay to stop riding. there’s a greater issue of public safety to consider (needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or in this case, the one).
remember, operating a motor vehicle is a privilege not a right. motorcycling (like operating an aircraft or an 80,000lb tractor-trailer) is a whole ‘nother tier of privilege ABOVE that. if it were easy, everybody would do it. again, no offense, just something to consider.
Honda is trying to generate interest in twenty-somethings that have a very different outlook and perspective than most “traditional” motorcyclists (age 45+). I suspect that the auto trans, styling, and riding position are fundamentally more attractive to entry-level riders.
Don’t quite understand why Honda hasn’t brought the DCT to the automobile lineup where it’s sorely missing, instead bringing it to the motorcycle side where it’s reception is lukewarm at best.
I think the DCT is a great innovation and could probably be used in a number of platforms. I have no problem with bikes that are not performance oriented. My issue with this particular bike is that it’s just plain ugly. Something just looks off with the whole thing. And the riding position, with the feet so far forward, looks very uncomfortable.
re: “I have no problem with bikes that are not performance oriented. My issue with this particular bike is that it’s just plain ugly.”
that’s what’s know as the “deal breaker”.
re: “Something just looks off with the whole thing.”
the term break dancing on the tip of your tongue is “wonky”.
How should we call this? Her Majesty Ugliness?
I am not sure but it looks that age of motorcycles is slowly closing down. A sunset of era, you may say.
That bike looks much better with thee optional windcsreen and bags. It looks less DN-like and more motorcycle-like.
Honda will do okay with this motorcycle, although this may be the lower selling version of the 700 series models. On other sites, the owners of the NTX700 absolutely rave about the bike, including those who popped for the DCT version. A lot of those drivers are pople who just don’t want to shift anymore, or who have physical limitations that prevent shifting.
Porsche is dropping manual transmissions from its product line in favor of dual clutch gearboxes. Some race cars have gone to semi-automatic transmissions (shifters on the steering wheel; clutch for launch only). It should come as a surprise that DCT technology will expand into motorcycling. As in many automotive advances, Honda will be the forerunner.
re: “Porsche is dropping manual transmissions from its product line in favor of dual clutch gearboxes. Some race cars have gone to semi-automatic transmissions (shifters on the steering wheel; clutch for launch only). It should come as a surprise that DCT technology will expand into motorcycling. As in many automotive advances, Honda will be the forerunner.”
ironically, Honda has seen fit to not only treat it’s latest generation 2013 accord with a traditional manual, they’ve gone and upgraded it to 6spd and created a sport moniker. not talking a 2-door, but a full saloon here. jump to 2:38 and 3:40 for sound under load…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYUoawMzb5Y
Oh boy, here we go again! Not my sort of bike but there must be something in Honda’s marketing data that keeps them producing these types of bikes? It’s not cheap to bring a bike to market so there must be something compelling enough to keep them trying. I think Dirck makes the point, most traditionalists won’t see much, if anything, for them. The newer riders just getting into motorcycles may?
I knew before I read the article and responses what would come to be, I wasn’t disappointed.
As one responder said, we did it to ourselves.
I was more impressed with the Grom.
I agree.
HONDA will sell 3 of these bikes at retail. The rest you can purchase in 2017 as left-overs for $4000.
man you did a good job of shooting multiple angles for a good view of the machine, problem is i cant find one the flatters it, its so… sooo…. meh!
The CTX700N deletes the fairing, and is certainly a visual improvement.
The “N” version is also $800 cheaper.
re: “Honda recognizes that the CTX700 DCT ABS offers some natural appeal to beginners.”
just not in image conscious America. image is everything. thus, I repeat a statement I made a few months ago. nail the aesthetics of the shipping box and you can sell the masses dog poop. as long as it looks good, whatever else is going on under the skin doesn’t matter. it’s the reason you can sell a Ferrari with an automatic transmission. why…? BECAUSE IT’S A FERRARI…!!!
ps: this is so NOT a Ferrari if that wasn’t clear.
Ferraris which, coincidentally, are going to automatic for all of their models.
When this doesn’t sell Honda will conclude that there is no market for automatic motorcycles. I will conclude that there is no market for feet forward riding style outside of the cruiser kingdom.
It is like Honda is setting up the auto tranny for failure. Put an auto in the Goldiwng and I’d bet they sell tons. Or even a regular standard.
DCT is also available in the NC700X adventure-style bike.
It’s an ugly bike with an automatic transmission, something I don’t want on a motorcycle.
I’m hoping that the good-looking and proper sport motorcycles don’t eventually all go away and all we’re left with is crap like this.
what do you do when theres a really bad bump in the road? take it up the spine? never understood the feet forward thing.
Looks like a half brother to the chopped up Goldwing that was Around the net a while ago. If they expect this new tranny to get momentum it better be introduced in some addtional bikes. This is a shock and awe design. Get attention for the new technology with an outrageous design then put it in a VTX1800. Not that this bike doesn’t have merit, but is definitely a bold design.
I think shock and awe was achieved with the DN-01 (similar layout to this, more expensive). I believe the transmission is also available on the VFR1200. I don’t know how well it’s selling against the standard model though.
One day they’ll get these transmissions good and lightweight enough and manuals will go away. There is no good reason to shift manually anymore with auto technology where it is.
No ‘good’ reason? How about – fun? That’s a good reason, in my opinion.
What’s ‘fun’ about shifting gears? It’s another chore that distracts from the ride. Seamless, perfect acceleration seems more fun to me (a 30yr rider). Motorcycles and semi trucks seem to be the last bastions of manual shifting. Let’s get past this already…
What’s fun about shifting gears? What’s *not* fun about shifting gears? The sounds, the sensations, are all accentuated when shifting is done well. I love the pissed-off sound my bike makes as I gear down to set up a corner, and the way the intake snorts when I shift up under strong acceleration. If you want comfort, and convenience, drive a car. BTW, how is this not a DN-01?
So, Dave. If shifting is such a distracting ‘chore’ for you, maybe you should just ride pillion.
DCT is an anti fun, anti hooligan device. No wheelies, no burnouts,and no rev matching on downshift. Clutching/shifting was one of the most fun things for me to master as a novice.
One of the facets of riding that I have always enjoyed is being in full control of the drivetrain. To deny that many enjoy this is simply ignorant.
Personally, I will never own an automatic transmission motorcycle as long as my clutch hand and shifting foot continue to function. How, as you state below, manual shifting “is chore that distracts from the ride” is beyond me. With enough riding, manual shifting becomes second nature, and requires little conscious attention from an experienced rider. That skill is achieved by using a manual transmission. Using an automatic transmission, a rider will never gain the skill or experience the pleasure of being in full control of their vehicle’s drivetrain.
Sad to say, but the American market has corrupted motorcycling worldwide. Why you would want to ride in an unnatural foot forward position is totally beyond me.
Mike
I ride a motorcycle because it engages and stimulates me. There has to be a visceral excitement to the ride, even when commuting. A little bit of engine vibe, the tone of the exhaust on acceleration or the rush of the powerband hit/surge (at legal speeds)…something. This review indicates that the bike has about as much personality as a washing machine. It completes the package with an ergonomic setup that is less than optimal for quick reactions and control (cruiser slouch/feet-forward). No thanks.
With a low seat height your feet have to go forward, otherwise the knees are forced to bend uncomfortably. I like this bike. Wish it had better suspension and cornering clearance. I think DCT/automatics will eventually start winning over all the “real” bikers once they realize what a performance advantage they offer.
Honda has been chasing a nonexistent market, a demographic of people who want unthreatening, low-mpg motorcycles, for the last 50 years. They got it right once, in the early 60s, but that was a unique historical moment, with the Baby Boom hitting late adolescence. Since then, the CX500 was, at best, a qualified success, while the Pacific Coast and DN-01 were miserable failures. Not bad bikes, necessarily, but not what the market wanted.
I don’t see this working out, once again. Dedicated bikers want more than this. Non-bikers who want cheap transport buy Chinese scooters.
re: “Non-bikers who want cheap transport buy Chinese scooters.”
or give up on the whole “wanna-be-biker” notion and end up staying in their cars.
Looks to me like it has the same chassis as the NC700 line. But I agree that Honda have gone ape with the ugly stick !
Not a bad bike, but why the feet forward?
Man that is one ugly motorbike
As someone old enough to miss kickstarters, the styling seems odd. I would rather spend an additional $1,000 and buy a CB1100. That, at least to me,looks right.
I know this is not a super sport but for 9k I would need more of, well…everything.
I think CTX 700’s are a home run, with or without the automatic. Low prices, awesome mileage, great quality and decent appearance make it a no brainer for lots of people. First new Honda I’ve liked in a long time. There will be lots of these on the road soon.
I always wondered what happened to the guy who designed the Pontiac Aztec….
LOL omg, scrolling down the page and then finally reading this last/first comment is pure comedy. that is friggin’ hysterical.
oh man that is soooooo true!