Honda’s Dani Pedrosa took the lead at Sepang earlier today with 16 laps remaining, passing defending champ Jorge Lorenzo (Yamaha). Lorenzo then entered battle with points leader Marc Marquez (Honda), and the duo eventually filled out the podium with Marquez taking second and Lorenzo third.
By finishing ahead of Lorenzo, Marquez extends his points lead in the championship to 43 with just three rounds remaining. The next race will be at Phillip Island next weekend. For additional details, results and points, visit the official MotoGP site.
I seem to recall a newbie called Mr K Roberts did pretty good in his first year in the big time. Without electronic aids. Pedrosa, Lorenzo, and Marquez are just damn good and the rest of us need to catch up and fast. The weekend before 8 of the 9 podium places were Spaniards, and that’s not entirely because they have good bikes. They are hot riders and that’s a fact.
I know we can’t go back (pre-electronic controls) but I wish we could.
I’m getting sorta dis-interested.
Naw… good rider is a good rider. Take away the electronics and the results would be the same.
Where is there any evidence to suggest that Rossi would be the fastest racer without electronics? The only thing I’ve seen out of Rossi as compared to some of his peers (Lorenzo and Marquez excluded) that is clearly superior is his ability to outbrake and work the machine on less than optimum rubber towards the end of races.
It may not be anything like conclusive evidence, but there is the fact that Rossi dominated in the pre-Nanny State Electronics era. Then there is the additional fact that he is one of the few riders (Nicky conspicuously being one of the others) who openly criticize the proliferation of electronic rider aids in MotoGP.
Clearly he and others of his ilk pine for the days when the rider made nearly all the difference, as opposed to what we have now, with the bikes being so easy to ride that practically any top-level racer can handle them. At this point, the reality of MotoGP racing is that the quality of the electronics package has become too important. If you’re not on a megabucks factory Honda or Yamaha (or possibly even just Lorenzo’s factory Yamaha, if we’re to buy into the “rider pecking order at Yamaha” conspiracy theories), you can be Kevin Schwantz, Mick Doohan or even, well, Valentino Rossi, and it won’t be enough.
To a degree, it’s likely a bit of a generational thing with the older riders. Nicky grew up providing his own traction control, and he spent a lot of time on extremely powerful superbikes. Guys like Marquez never rode anything but crazy light/less powerful bikes, right up until they were dropped onto tightly controlled MotoGP machinery.
Put it this way: remove all the electronic aids, and where would you place your bet come race day? Would you still expect Marquez, Lorenzo and, especially, Pedroza, to consistently beat Rossi?
I know I wouldn’t. I think we would also see Nicky showing up again on the podium fairly frequently.
Witness what happened to Pedroza at Aragon as soon as his traction control was eliminated. Now, obviously, he would have ridden quite differently had he known that he no longer had any TC to keep things under control. Still, it’s in that lack-of-traction difference where guys like Rossi and Nicky shine, never mind the additional advantage afforded to the Smurf Crew by virtue of the extra pounds Rossi and Nicky are toting around.
“Put it this way: remove all the electronic aids, and where would you place your bet come race day? Would you still expect Marquez, Lorenzo and, especially, Pedroza, to consistently beat Rossi?”
Well, if they just stopped the aids, sure, you have a point. But had the (stupid in racing, IMO, rider aids) not come to the fore, those would be the same guys figuring out how to step up).
I also think it simplifies things to say “practically any top-level racer can handle them” – at this level these guys are ridiculous – “top-level” means quite a bit – aids or no aids.
True, but there is a definite feeling of “separating the men from the boys” that’s missing in today’s buttoned-down MotoGP boardroom atmosphere, even compared to the initial 1000cc days of the MotoGP era, never mind the days of the snarling two-stroke 500s.
Saddled with his less powerful Suzuki, a guy like Kevin Schwantz wouldn’t stand a chance in 2013, riding against the juggernaut Honda and Yamaha machines or Doohan, Gardner, Lawson, and Rainey. There would be no reason for someone like Gary McCoy even to suit up. Pre-electronic safety nets, however, Schwantz was usually able to make up the difference, and we as fans were treated to a much better spectacle as a result.
Have to agree with you, VLJ. Before now when your electronic equipment is critical, a newby 1st coming up to the bigger/more powerfull GP bikes wouldn’t have any way of winning repeatedly his 1st year if not for the way things are now. If the newby won once his first year that alone would be amazing. But that was then and this is now.
The best guys are the best guys. The aids don’t make it any easier to be the fastest, otherwise they’d all go the same speed and nobody would crash.
I remember reading an article on the BMW1000rr on this issue. Essentially, the point was that the bike could make you go faster around a track, but it also took away the finer points of fineness with its abs and traction control
re: “I think we would also see Nicky showing up again on the podium fairly frequently.”
with the death of simoncelli and the subsequent overthrow of WSBK, the only people you will see showing up on the podium going forward are those who can create the biggest payday for Dorna and Co. mark these words for they are not mine… but the script writer’s.
re: “conspiracy theories”
…business model.
Honda must have made a deal with the devil, they have up’d the game tremendously. Now imagine if…when Lorenzo’s contract is up….he moves to Honda!
re: “Honda must have made a deal with the devil, they have up’d the game tremendously.”
or just spent multi-millions licensing and developing someone else’s patent. Russians don’t take a dump without a plan, and the Japanese don’t buy other people’s intellectual property (afterall, it’s not like they’re short on IP) unless they’re convinced it’d give them a technical/competitive advantage.
when you hear hoofbeats…? think horses, not zebras.
Curious Norm, what patents are you referring to? Could it rather be that Honda side-stepped existing patents to develop their own design? If that’s the case then that’s done all the time by all firms.
Unquestionably Rossi is an incredible racer. As has been said, take away the electronic frippery and I think he’d be totally competitive with the young pups. But, I do think his mortality finally bitch-slapped him after the loss of his buddy Super Sic. It seems to me that he’s just not racing beyond the edge like he used to. That, and Yamaha needs to pump up the straightline performance to stay in step with the Hondas and Jorge. Maybe there’s truth to Yamaha treating him as second string.
Could be the loss of his buddy, and could also be the increasing frequency of his own injuries and the consequent realization that the immortality of youth is fading. The next question is then: is it better to burn up or to fade away?
Could he have made it in F1, if he had gone there, thus not fading away? Should he regret having made the choice to stay on two wheels? Or did he never really have a shot at F1 despite the test drive opportunities he was given?
Is Rossi’s only remaining chance at glory to go up against Schumi in a special one-on-one race series on various tracks, both on bikes and in cars? Who’s ready to put money down on such a spectacle?
Except for that great scrap between Lorenzo and Marquez in the early laps, man, this was one boring, processional race. From half-distance on, Bautista fighting Crutchlow for fifth offered the only real intrigue.
Make the bike/rider weights equal and take away the electronic controls and Rossi could/would still win. His racecraft is still great. Without those changes he’s a half second per lap down over the race distance which we’ve seen is good enough for a lot of top fours but won’t get him onto the podium very often unless there’s a race incident up ahead of him.
Bingo, we have a winner!
+1. Rossi is still fast but he’s much larger than the horse jockey sized Lorenzo-Pedrosa-Marquez. I believe it’s an issue of weight and size at this point. But I doubt they’ll impose a minimum weight restriction (bike + rider) just for Rossi. With Ezpeleta in charge and his Spanish armada of riders doing so well I doubt he’ll be inclined to make that change for Rossi and the other larger riders.
A slight weight disadvantage would surface later in the race due to tire wear. The weight thing doesn’t play out consistently. Bautista is also tiny (20lb less than Rossi) and on a Honda. Lorenzo is only 4.5 lb less than Rossi.
Face it, if Rossi could go faster he would!
You, sir, are absolutely correct. I have NEVER seen anyone get more excuses made for them than Rossi. It’s like all these people on here are Rossi’s lovers and need to stick up for him. And, truth be known, I’m betting NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM have every made love to Rossi, or even so much as had a conversation with him. And, no, I’m not calling Rossi gay, however, his boyfriend sure is!
This sorta bizarre non-sense is why I basically never read comments on motorcycle websites.
Ha…try saying something unflattering about Hayden. You’ll have to change your name, get an unlisted phone, move to a new town etc
Who else thinks Rossi has been subdued into following team orders all season?
I wonder if it’s retribution for having left, but could also be the narrow-mindedness of team management. I think by playing safe and not taking any risk in competing with each other, on account of team orders, their riders are not knocking each other out, but neither do they both have the option of getting as high on the podium as they can get. Consequently Rossi ends up no higher than Lorenzo, and Yamaha will have a worse result than they may otherwise have had. Maybe we’ll find out next season if Rossi has really burned out, or whether he’s just been waiting for the light to turn green.
there’s nothing to suggest that this is happening except through rossi-tinted glasses.
Rossi could see this happening four years ago when he gave Yamaha an ultimatum – ‘Me or JL’. Yamaha backed the faster horse then, and it’s very much still the case now.
re: “Yamaha backed the faster horse”
close, Yamaha backed the “cheaper” horse. 3 words… GLOBAL ECONOMIC CRISIS.
Cheaper yes.
But faster also. Nothing to do with economics on the speed front.
re: “Nothing to do with economics on the speed front.”
all part of the script my young padawan. they’re just giving you what you’re mentally predisposed to believing. as Lorenzo alluded to in the sepang press conference, “welcome to the show”.
If Rossi really could easily go faster, I’d think he would have been up there mixing it up for a longer period and putting himself between Lorenzo and Marquez at the finish.
Rossi is still fast, but time and age gets everyone, eventually.
My guess is that the top three are just a little bit faster, although Rossi has had some great races this year.
I would say that this was one of his better races if not as exciting as watching him fight his way to 4th from a bad start.
The team orders comment: bunk. Ha isn’t usually close enough to warrant that even if there were any (Repsol Honda proves they don’t ever year with their antics).
re: “Rossi is still fast, but time and age gets everyone, eventually.”
NATCORK. the might of HRC’s 50 man boffin army gets everyone, eventually.
like i predicted over a year ago, the zeroshift gearbox would render the Honda all but unbeatable. you have to understand, it’s not a evolutionary step in performance, but a REVOLUTIONARY step in performance (for motorbikes anyway). as evidenced by the falling lap records, marcus (a rook) now makes the SECOND person who’s jumped on the bike blitzing both dan and the field.
Lorenzo managed wins with his old gearbox after Honda’s zero-loss box came out. Yamaha now has one and it doesn’t seem to be affecting Lorenzo’s results. It hasn’t been anything of a game-changer from what I can see. Same 3 bikes running away every race, just as before. Lap records fell in the years after they pulled 200cc out of the bikes too.
re: “It hasn’t been anything of a game-changer from what I can see.”
now qualify your statement. how long have you seen…?
3 races or 3 years…?
I started watching in the Rainey, Schwantz, Gardener era.
Sorry Norm but the gearbox is a tiny part of what wins races. If it were a huge deal Lorenzo would have been keeping up with Marquez last Sunday, he has a seamless ‘box now. A race bike is a complex package, not a collection of bits and bobs tossed together like a salad.
What brand is best has gone back and forth since I started paying attention to GP racing in the very late 60s. Right now it is Honda, next year it could go back to being Yamaha, it is, in theory, even possible Ducati could be the bike to have.
Goose
re: “I wonder if it’s retribution for having left”
nope. master/apprentice team structure has been Yamaha S.O.P. since forever. they’re beyond team orders. whereas before ross used to be top o’ the food chain, he now fills the apprentice role. notice you don’t hear him complaining like calvin or being generally disgruntled about his P4 status. this, because he knows the drill.
Complete and utter nonsense.
Rossi’s like the relative that came for supper and now has moved in. We love you but it’s time to move on. Go out on (relative) top and don’t be like most guys here where mindless babbling seems to dictate the forum.
welcome to the show. (mallorcan accent)