After traveling back to California from Sturgis, I received some interesting CAD drawings of the Indian Scout frame and engine, a couple of which appear at the top of this article. It is clear that the frame is modular, and that the front end, for instance, could be bolted to a different sub-frame, or vice versa. Ready for future models, maybe?
The Scout, although plenty fast already, is in a very mild state of engine tune in my opinion. On paper, it looks like this engine could easily make 120+ hp, so future frame and engine tune modifications could result in several new models. The graphic immediately below provides a summary of Indian’s comparison of its new Scout with the Harley 1200 Custom featuring the current Sportster motor. Claimed horsepower, as you can see, is nearly 50% higher in the Scout (47% to be exact).
The graphic below this paragraph identifies several of the accessories that will be available for the Scout, and illustrates just how versatile this model can be.
One of the highlights of the weekend was meeting Burt Munro’s son John, who was the biggest celebrity at the Indian parties, in my humble opinion. John’s picture immediately follows this paragraph, and he is holding his dad’s Bonneville trophy. Following John’s photo is the star of American Picker’s, Mike Wolfe. Finally, you can see Indian enthusiast Mark Wahlberg, who attended the Scout unveiling in Sturgis on Saturday evening.
I have to say something about the Black Hills of South Dakota, which is one of the most beautiful places I have seen on this planet. I took the photo immediately following this paragraph adjacent to one of the roads through the Black Hills. At the very bottom of this article, you will see a picture of the Indian Roadmaster, which I also tested in the Black Hills last weekend. Stay tuned for a full ride report on this beautiful, luxury tourer from Indian.
I think the Scout is a good base bike much like the sportster. I rode my 1200 sportier 1500 miles to Sturgis for the rally and saw the scout first hand. Hats off to Indian for raising the bar. Maybe a one piece bench seat, bigger fuel tank, different pipes, a performance ECM and now we are getting somewhere here. My only complaint is the (what appears to be shim under bucket) valve lash adjustment.
The HD will cost much less to run as it doesn’t have to this adjusted ever.
“The HD will cost much less to run as it doesn’t have to this (shim under bucket) adjusted ever.”
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Compiling a complete list of cost items for both bikes vs just the one you stated just might have the Indian costing far less. That has been the case with our Victory Vision vs all the HDs in the club we belong
Got the 1200C now with almost 40K in 4 yrs. Runs too hot on rides on and off road so maybe this Scout can preform as expected. Worried about putting a rock through the radiator 200 miles from nowhere.
I thought I would like this machine truth is not one single thing about it appeals to me sorry.
I’ve been waiting for a performance cruiser since I sold my 96 Magna a while back.
I was hoping it would be from Honda, but having one made in America is even better.
Now just waiting for a local Indian dealer to open.
BTW, performance includes handling, so the V-rod was never considered.
Engineering for function and performance first is the proper way. Engineering, or lack same, as directed by a company for style,fashion, nostalgia is all well and good for sales perhaps but it is a pinched or diminished form of engineering. Adopting to the severe self imposed limits of the large 45 degree non unit Vtwin may be challenging but the very act of accepting limits is a sort of sad thing to me. Except for decent efficiency on no other level can the performance of those sorts of engines be considered quantitatively good. It’s all about look,feel,sound, feelings.
An odd analogy. David Byrne of Talking Heads,the archetype of what was termed an Art Band said, properly,that The Ramones were the real Art Band. Not a band at all really, musically especially at first, simply the expression of an attitude. The total embrace of form over function. So too Harley’s are a form of art and so in some way the antithesis of real and thus the antithesis of what Harley fans proclaim they stand for.
“It’s all about look,feel,sound, feelings.”
Are these not good things? For me, motorcycles are about feelings. Whether it is functional, objective performance that lights your fire or boatloads of chrome emitting that “potato-potato” sound, I don’t think the resulting satisfaction of either is any less real to the rider. Engineering for function is only “diminished” when the customer does not value further returns that might be gained. Something that gets produced by its maker to make a statement (and not necessarily money these days) such as a 1000cc uber-sportbike may be a much purer form of art than a Fat Bob, no?
Whether you embrace form, function or both, they are all ultimately art forms – things we can appreciate or not based on how we judge them with our senses. They can all be beautiful to the right beholder. Just my perspective on it.
While the CBR650F is not direct competition, it is considered an entry motorcycle with a reasonable $8,500 price tag. My guess is that is that it would make a way better bike for new riders on many levels. To begin width, it’s only 460 pounds ready to ride (100 pounds less) , has better braking, a standard riding position that let’s you see over the traffic, better handling and proven Honda quality. And….it cost $2000 dollars less!
If you have to have a cruiser with a seating position that emulates a genealogical exam, then you won’t understand the advantages that the CBR600F offers.
A lot of riders (most, actually, by the numbers) have no interest in a complex inline-4, the sound, the chain drive, or the riding position. I ride a “standard,” but still see the attraction of either side of the spectrum. ‘No reason to insult those with a different opinion.
I meant no insult by the comparison and like I stated, if you have to have a feet-forward cruiser you’ll have no interest in the CBR. Lots of posts here about what a great entry level bike the Scout is and a little comparison of the Honda to the Scout is not meant to insult (well maybe the gynecological comment 🙂 ). To each his own..
Great looking bike. Great performing bike. Clearly great engineering. 3.3 gallon tank takes it out of any kind of consideration unless it gets 75 mpg. Tiny tank is silly. It just ruins the bike, period.
Show me a bigger tank with a stylized Burt Munro sort of fairing in a standard style/riding position (hmm 1978 BMW RS) and I would test ride one immediately.
I quite like this new motorcycle despite cruisers not being my thing. Nice original design with modern materials. It has its own identity, doesn’t use any fake fins or other campy dressy bits (that’s reserved for the Chief!), and seems to be priced sensibly. Probably appeals more to the younger generation than the traditional land barges – I’m sure that’s intentional. Great to see cruiser design finally break out of the 1980s.
I wish it looked more like an vintage Scout than a Victory.
I was interested to see the modular nature of the frame. I suspect that we’ll see a very different bike with this engine quite soon. What I’d like to see is something with cosmetics and ergonomics somewhere between a Triumph Bonneville and a Ducati Monster with suspension and brakes aimed at corner carving. Scout Sport anyone? As a kiwi I think they could call it the Munro! Harley has dabbled in this kind of thing with the XLCR, Streetrod and XR1200 but I think Indian’s got the raw material to convert a few sport bike riders in a way those Harley’s never did.
I’m glad to see them branch out. I’m sorry to see watercooling but realize it’s a necessary evil. Maybe someday we’ll see some better styled Buell style bikes come about. Just got finished up with a laid down SV with a tweaked radiator, burnt up fan, PITA getting air out of coolant. Love my air cooled Ducs, Buells and Beemer. Maybe I’ll add a Guzzi but not a watercooled cruiser.
More comments here about the Sportster than the Indian! Just don’t forget that not everyone wants or needs 100 hp to make them happy, and some may like the vintage look of the Sportster over the little techno-Scout. With the Scout”s limited suspension travel that bottoms easily over medium potholes and railroad tracks, there may be reasons for buying a Harley over a Scout….passenger carrying ability, engine sound/cadence and much simpler maintenance of the valve train being a few.
Sure, the Scout is a groundbreaking machine, but not everyone is going to horde the Indian dealer to buy one. Also, this forum is usually heavily biased against anything Harley, so I don’t consider this a meaningful cross-section of opinions.
Yeah, and Sportsters have such generous suspension travel…
To my eye, the Scout looks vintage. The Sportster looks like the worst of early eighties styling.
Thanks for helping to make my point.
there may be reasons for buying a Harley over a Scout, but suspension travel aint one of them. also Indian already offers a passenger seat for the Scout.
I rode a Sportster for 60,000+ miles with 3.6 inches of travel in the rear and never had an issue with bottoming out, even with a passenger. The Scout is not a cure all but a short range bike that’ll get you quickly to the next bar when you’re in the mood for a cool one. For some riders, that’s all they’ll ever need.
If you’re not bottoming out 3.6 inches of travel you probably ride very slowly. I hope I never get stuck behind you. On a related note I once saw a line of RV’s stuck behind a pack of guys on Harleys, looking desperately for an opening to pass.
So many choices these days. It’s a beautiful thing!
You are certainly right, I think. The Scout definitely has a lot of us enthusiasts excited, but the Indian brand doesn’t mean much outside of the enthusiast circle. While I love the design, I am not a cruiser rider and likely won’t buy one unless irrationality gets the better of me (which does happen from time to time.) I suspect many others here waxing lyrical about the Scout fall into that category, too. Forget performance and spec sheets: many motorcycles, particularly cruisers, are purchased by non-enthusiasts as toys or fashion accessories. No matter how good the Scout is, it is going to take a long time to beat the kind of brand recognition and bling factor that Harley has built up over the years. Between that type of consumer and those that just appreciate the Harley formula for what it is, Harley dealers are still going to be getting plenty of traffic.
Groundbreaking…..how? Groundbreaking like building a motorcycle that has the name of an old bike but is based on a genre that occurred decades after its demise?
Is it groundbreaking from a technological or performance standpoint? I completely agree that it is not. But it certainly demonstrates that Indian intends to be a formidable player in the market and that they are willing to deviate from the long-established paradigms that tend to dictate product development in that genre. And frankly, that ignites a hope in many of us that they will aspire to build more than cruisers one day.
Well, I think it’s a pretty bike. Maybe they’ll make a Scout 741. And I can’t really say all that much I guess if I don’t by a V7 Stone.
The 741 was a military model, no? Doubt you’ll be seeing that happen.
do you mean a longitudinal crank v-twin Indian? if so, that was called the “841”
Congrats for outperforming one of the worst motorcycles in production.
Ooh that hurts a bit, but you make good point.
I am pleased that someone, anyone, is trying to innovate in the cruiser market place.
Engines look interesting. Now if they would put it in a real motorcycle that might be something.
Cruisers look OK but their riding position hurts my back and I can’t tolerate the extreme excess weight, slow revving engine, horrid handling and brakes. I’d rather drive a car and I hate driving cars.
Victory is miles better than the products offered by “the motor company” in the performance, handling and brakes departments.
We can hope the Indian products are likewise better, however that frame is far from confidence inspiring. The frame looks like it has lots of twist and wriggle built in.
I don’t know, George. That frame looks like a pretty rigid assembly to me once it is bolted up with the engine. I suppose we’ll find out once Dirck really get the chance to wring one out.
No way the frame can be rigid.
The engine is not bolted in at the top so the entire back bone is free to twist as the steering head is twisted due to steering inputs.
IF the motor bolted into the front part of the frame at the top of the front cylinder, near the steering head, then that would be a start but the backbone would still be free to twist.
To prevent the back bone twist would require at least the rear cylinder bolting up to the frame, a connection which is also missing.
Even better would be some sort of 3 dimensional triangulation in the back bone.
As it sits, the back bone is just 2 tubes that can twist along their length and at each end at the bolted up connection points.
This type of frame might be OK on a low performance cruiser but it will still limit the handling immensely and make the bike very flexible in the wrong directions.
I refer to type of “performance” as having a hinge flexing side to side at the rider’s seat.
I see what you are saying. You’re right, it doesn’t bolt up top anywhere. It will be curious to see if any of the reviewers really try to push this thing and what their take on it is.
wouldn’t the two gold plates inhibit flexing of those tubes?
I thought the gold plate is where it bolted through the top of the engine at first. But looking at the first picture now, it clearly does not. As I am not an engineer, I can’t say with any authority that the chassis would be noodley or not. That is why I rely on Dirck and his piers to flog these things on my behalf and inform me of the reality of the matter as opposed to internet consensus. 🙂
I was thinking the two back tubes couldn’t move up or down/ twist as they appear to be anchored by the gold plates. Not an engineer either, just pondering what they do.
I would guess the assembly would still be much more subject to torsion than a performance-oriented frame. Whether or not the Scout’s performance envelope is capable of exerting the forces necessary to actually induce or the feel such unwanted flex, I have no idea.
Mickey, I think the gold plates are just there to hold the studs for mounting the gas tank.
Have you tried to twist a cast aluminum piece? That is what the top race bike have as a single side rear swing arm with no bracing. They don’t flex. I am surprised that there is no cross bracing in the back bone but the sheer width of the front casting does the job. I look forward to the sport bike they put behind that front aluminum casting.
Come on now, George’s Internet analysis trumps all the work of hundreds of real engineers of a multi-billion dollar company. George is going to be in heavy demand once the world’s motorcycle manufacturers get wind of his frame design prowess.
In every sportbike made those cast aluminum pieces are secured in place by solid connections to the engine and/or welded connections to substantial aluminum frame spars that resist twisting and flex by their design.
The reasoning for connecting the cast aluminum pieces in place is to prevent twisting of the headstock and the swingarm pivot.
This frame, as shown, has neither connections to the engine nor aluminum spars welded between the cast pieces.
This is why the frame will flex and twist.
This is not news to anyone that reads almost anything about modern motorcycle frame designs.
I’ve been obsessing over this bike for the last few days, and the only things I don’t like are the seat color and the angle of the rear shock. I bet it wouldn’t be hard to make an adaptor to move the top of the shock rearward so there is more ride height and travel.
Count me in as one of the riders who would treat the scout more like a standard than a cruiser. (I wonder why Buell didn’t hook up with Polaris?)
Ichiban Moto has a video for people like you.
LOL!
Buell hooked up with a different kind of Indian…
Badda-bing!
who was it suggesting on previous pages that the engine could be tuned to produce 120HP
In principle, seeing what Aprilia got out of a similar, but slightly smaller engine, this should be possible. Of course, whether it could be done with this particular engine depends on whether the crankshaft assembly is beefy enough to take the added strain, whether the valve setup will take a few more rpm etc. None of us have seen the inside of this engine so we are just blathering on general principles.
Not I but, It’s not much of a stretch. You figure my ’93 air-cooled, two-valve, low compression, 904cc v-twin makes 80 hp at a fairly lower 7,000 rpm. This Scout is definitely in a mild state of tune. Now where they stuffed the extra 150 pounds is a good question over my steel-framed, old Monster.
Interesting to see the old rivalry light up again. Indian versus Harley…
The reason I ride bikes today is because my father rode his whle life. He has passed some time ago, but he used to raise hell on his Indian (probably a Scout, not a Chief as he was a young farm kid) when he started out. He would ride the thing out in the fields and bring the cows home with it. He said he raced Harleys and always won, though he may just have been crazier than them to go 80mph+ on dirt roads! The bike was sold when he went into the service, so I will never know what he had for sure.
Now we have new Indians with their bullseye set right on HD again. I could go for a more ‘standard’ Scout, with good performance… I think dad would approve!
If the Roadmaster compares to one of Harley’s touring bikes, then this Soout is really more of a Dyna competitor than a Sportster, though it’s somewhat inbetween. A Sportster is a real retro affair with a 883 or a 1200 engine and it’s being superceeded by the Street line. I think the Dyna’s size and price is more comparable. Dynas have a more modern 103 cc and they tune up to 135 hp, with a mild cam. I know you want Indian to look good, and I get that, but a Sportster is kind of an odd old bike to compare it to.
The Dyna is over 100lb heavier and while they can tune to 135hp, they don’t. As delivered, it makes about 75hp. It’s a different class of bike, and still doesn’t compare favorably by those metrics.
The Scout and Sportster 1200 have similar MSRP’s which I think is the reason for the comparison.
The Dyna’s in comparison are bigger, 130 lbs heavier with the cheapest model starting at over $13,000 and the nice ones being over $15K and still make quite a bit less power than the Scout (if Indian’s claims are realistic) in stock trim even with CVO treatment.
The 1200 Sportsters are all in the $11,000 ball-park, just like this Indian. The Dyna starts at over $13,300. What makes the Dyna (the Street Bob, which is the cheapest Dyna model) more price-comparable than the Sportster?
The Scout is over 100 lbs. lighter than the Dyna. What makes the Dyna more “size comparable” to the Scout than the Sportster?
The Sportster is the logical Harley-Davidson to compare to the Scout. End of story.
The Scout was clearly aimed at the Sportster. The fact that they far exceeded its capabilities doesn’t change that fact.
The Thunderstroke 111 will find its way into a sportier frame (to satisfy a potential FX buyer) – its a matter of timing and prudence.
I hope / don’t think they will simply start replicating all HD models, but some are just too ripe for the picking.
They compared it to the Sportster out of compassion for the MoCo. They didn’t want to publicly thrash the entire “Big Twin” line-up…but if you insist LOL
Seems to me they could have bumped the price for the “perceived value” so many motor company buyers seem to enjoy. Maybe upgraded the suspension. Still, looks like they have hit home run. It’s nice to see an American company do good.
When the first round of Indians came out, I thought ‘here we go again’. But while the new Scout doesn’t seem that radical, I think it points to a willingness to innovate that is very encouraging. I don’t think most of us would be surprised if we had seen variations on themes for the next 10 years that basically used the same engines, frames, subframes etc. from the last years line-up. That’s the coolest thing to me – that we have a completely new design so early in the company’s development.
Now the important next step. When Harley came out with the V-Rod (13-14 years ago?) I thought we were finally getting somewhere. But the Current V-Rods are, for all practical purposes, the same thing we had back then. The XR1200 was a brief, encouraging glimmer, but that doesn’t even exist anymore. The new Harley Indian-made bikes are interesting, but they seem to just be a way to make money off the name with a cheap imitation.
EBR is doing really cool things and if Indian can continue developing bikes like this we may yet reach a point when the US motorcycle industry isn’t a national embarrassment.
Polaris/Indian, PLEASE don’t let the Nesses mess with the Indians. Screwing up Victory is enough!!!!
How can they put this much work and detail into what looks like a great product and not include ABS?
agreed with the above. why no antilock brakes? are the people in the target market advanced motorcylist with perfect breaking control record?
YES!
no, seriously market research has shown time and time again, Americans don’t trust ABS on their motorcycles. It can be bought as an option on some but generally production line wide few ABS’s for the U.S. Times are changing though. Some Americans are even wearing helmets now and using their front brakes.
That research might look different if they’d survey outside of the motorcycle community. US motorcycle sales have dwindled to the point that the goal needs to become bringing in new riders, not fighting for the group that is left. A good automatic transmission (good enough that current riders would choose it) would go a long way.
God help me, the Scout is a cruiser that I would actually ride. But it’s not really a cruiser, is it, except for the cosmetics…. it’s just a different take on a standard.
I love the way it looks with the pillion seat and bags.
I have to say, this is the first cruiser I have ever been excited about. Although, I’m glad to say I’m not actually in a position to buy a new bike and won’t be for the next couple of years. It’ll be really interesting to see if Indian can release something a bit more standard, I would love a Bonneville styled bike with this motor.
I wounder how the Scout engine and Harleys new 750 would look in
class C flattrack gear?
Hey, just noticed the exhaust pipes in the accessory mock up are not the same pipes in the 2 articles on road testing and announcement, yet they are not listed as accessories. interesting.
My thoughts on the new Scout, is after reading most of the articles, is clearly Indian (Polaris), has no intention of being lead around by it’s competitors, and fully intends to blaze their own path. Paying tribute to Indian’s past is a good thing, building brand new, old tech motorcycles in not, Polaris has launched a new bike, but more importantly has sparked sparked a renascence.
Great may bee I can make a sv1000 out of it!
NO Indian dealer in the State of Connecticut .
PLEASE Polaris , talk 1 existing CT-other brand- dealer into taking on Indian.
Indian is very demanding on what they want in a dealership. Very expensive buy in. Our local Polaris dealer said no way he could afford it.
although in the end, the question may be can he afford NOT to?
If the dealer is making money selling UTV’s quads, snowmobiles, and jetskis of course he can afford not to sell Indian motorcycles.
^this. The nearest Indian dealer to me is in West Springfield, MA. I’m in the Hartford area. Come on, Indian, where’s the love?
Tell ya, this is ripper… they have everything in place. Yes, the frame is very important and this time is really technically based. The weight constrains of HD behemonts is gone.
I also like the dress-up, very clever policy – let customers to participate in building their bike… good luck!
I’m digging the new Scout and wish Indian success, but the table above shows a price of $14,144 for a Sportster 1200C. Um… the base price for a 2014 is $10,649… What gives?
They were making the comparison, and adding $3,000 was to make it (1200C) 100hp.
Good story. The comparison is similar to the “Golden Days” of motorcycling, when every weekend Indian and Harley was battling out for victories on board tracks, flat tracks, TT’s and every other kind of racing that was available. Competition at the factories was just as fierce, and like those days, the Indian’s always had the upper hand with specs, just like your table shows now. The Indian “45’s” were always superior to the Harley “45’s” as were all of the other machines as well… Glad to see Indian resurrected, even if it is in name only…
Another great article Dirck.
I currently have a blue Cheiftain demo for a few days- it’s beautiful bike, very smooth trany, quality plush ride that can eat manyu miles daily, and the engine is addictive with its low down torque and thumping revs. I can see what the hype is all about 🙂
Great… No Indian dealer in the capital of Texas..! I hope this bike helps the brand to expand their dealer network.
Mike from Pickers needs to get out and get some road grime and bugs on that jacket.
maybe he is super fastidious about cleaning and conditioning a quality leather so it will last a lifetime
or maybe its brand new
and/ or maybe the manufacturer just gave it to him to wear at the event
I mean $14,144. Sorry.
I’m curious, how was $14,400 computed for the Sportster 1200?
Indian’s estimated cost to bring the Sportster up to the Scout’s specs, such as engine power, leather seat, etc.
And I have written to Harley and talked to dealers about why they don’t get with the 21st Century (modern) in terms of engineering across the range. I just got the same yadda yadda; being run by a bunch of head in the sand guys who said wow we make self canceling turn signals… Here we see Polaris do exactly what I was talking about, bring in young engineers with vision. Vision. Imagine that! Modern frame. Changeable ergos. Overhead cams (ya think!). – Like the YAM FZ07 and FZ09 that have been flying out of dealers. Make something revolutionary. Kudos to Indian. My grandfather rode one in the 30’s out of Boston. So I may have to just snag one for myself and keep the tradition alive.
I remember the 550 vision 🙁
Oh yes! That was a beauty.
CAD drawing suggests a Standard would be easy to build. Ahem.
Yes! Or a scrambler, or a cafe racer.
yes, yes, YES
and the hits just keep rolling
A scrambler or street tracker… Now that would be the ticket!
I’d want any of the bikes mentioned from “jim” down to this post. The Scrambler and Street Tracker top the list.
Some doofus lady at work bought a late 90s Indian. I can’t believe how different is the new brand.
Like this new Scout or not, it is a great time for Cruiser enthusiasts…
Competition is good.
Great story, and the Scout seems like a great new bike!
I’ve been living in SD for over 20 years, and I think the best time to visit the Black Hills is mid to late September.
The crowds thin, and the weather is usually cool and dry.
I’ll be taking a demo ride on the New Scout in the Spring. Who knows? Maybe I’ll buy my 1st cruiser.