GSX-S1000F ABS
MD received the following press release from Suzuki describing several 2016 models, including the entire GSX-S1000 family of bikes, the Bandit 1250S ABS and the TU250X.
You can read the following release for more details, but the big power GSX-S1000 models will be in U.S. dealers in late September/early October at prices ranging from $9,999 for the naked non-ABS version to $10,999 for the faired model with ABS. Here is the press release:
CALIF. (June 12, 2015) – With this early-release announcement of 2016 motorcycles, Suzuki shifts into a higher gear with a 2016 model lineup that delivers power, style, and road-owning comfort, with retail pricing that is sure to amaze. Suzuki is very excited to kick the 2016 model year off with the launch of the eagerly anticipated GSX-S1000 family of motorcycles, along with return of the fan favorite Bandit 1250S ABS and the retro single TU250X which marries a classic style to modern motorcycle technology.
2016 Suzuki GSX-S1000 line
Starting with naked versions of the GSX-S1000 and GSX-S1000 ABS, and continuing with the full fairing GSX-S1000F ABS, all are bold new motorcycles tied directly to the legendary GSX-R heritage of inline-four performance and design. These 2016 sports roadsters take the GSX-R’s family character from the track directly to the street.
GSX-S1000F ABS
All three GSX-S1000 models are powered by a 999cc inline-four-cylinder engine that is based on the long-stroke “K5” generation GSX-R1000 engine; which has long been a favorite with riders for its power and torque delivery that is ideal for street riding performance. Making big power through the low-end and mid-range, this engine uses cams optimized for street domination. The three 2016 bikes also feature the Suzuki Advanced Traction Control System, Brembo monobloc brakes, a six-speed transmission, and a chassis designed for street-riding comfort.
The three-mode traction control system lets the rider control engine performance for more confidence in a variety of street conditions. Using a handlebar-mounted switch, the rider can easily choose among the three modes, or turn off the system completely.
Each bike’s suspension setup consists of 43mm KYB inverted front forks and link-style single-shock rear shock absorber for that balanced sport-performance and road-going comfort. The forks feature adjustable rebound and compression damping plus spring preload, and the shock is completely tunable using a cam-style preload adjuster plus adjustable compression damping.
GSX-S1000F ABS
Renthal Fatbar handlebars add to the comfort, and the rider stays informed through a comprehensive instrument cluster featuring an LCD with adjustable illumination levels.
The naked-style GSX-S1000 sets a striking pose with angular radiator shrouds that enhance its aggressive image and aid cooling performance. It features a single headlight. Sport-Street enthusiasts can also choose the GSX-S1000 ABS featuring Suzuki’s digital Antilock Brake System (ABS) that monitors wheel speed and matches stopping power to available traction.
For riders who desire a full fairing on their street sportbike, Suzuki also offers the 2016 GSX-S1000F ABS, which takes the performance of the GSX-S1000 and adds a fairing, a short windscreen, a dual-headlight face, and Suzuki’s digital Antilock Brake System (ABS) that monitors wheel speed and matches stopping power to available traction.
GSX-S1000
With the GSX-S1000 and GSX-S1000F ABS, Suzuki changes motorcycling for the better, again. The GSX-S1000 is available in in Metallic Triton Blue and Metallic Fibron Gray. The GSX-S1000 carries a suggested retail price of $9,999. The GSX-S1000 ABS and GSX-S1000F ABS are available in Metallic Triton Blue and Sparkle Black / Pearl Mira combination and will retail for $10, 499 and $10,999 respectively. The entire GSX-S1000 family will be available at your local Suzuki dealership in late September/early October.
GSX-S1000
Key Features of the GSX-S1000 line:
- 999cc long-stroke four-cylinder powerplant brings enhanced throttle response across the entire rpm range.
- Finely tuned fuel injection with 10-hole injectors feeding the Suzuki Dual Throttle Valve system for more complete combustion, reducing fuel consumption and exhaust emissions.
- Iridium spark plugs produce a strong spark for efficient combustion.
- Three-mode traction-control system lets riders choose the optimum ignition-timing setup for their riding style.
- Newly designed lightweight and compact twin-spar aluminum frame.
- Distinctive and aggressively style body work, whether rider wants a fairing or naked-bike style.
- The front disc brakes are equipped with the top-of-the-line radial-mount Brembo monobloc calipers.
- KYB adjustable, inverted front fork.
- Renthal aluminum Fatbar handlebars are lightweight and reduce vibration.
- Full LCD instrument cluster is lightweight and features a speedometer, tachometer, odometer, dual trip meter, clock, water temperature gauge, gear position indicator, average and instant fuel consumption readout and more.
2016 Suzuki Bandit 1250S ABS
Suzuki Motor of America Inc., is thrilled to announce the 2016 Suzuki Bandit 1250S ABS. The refined Bandit is back to deliver a higher level of sport-touring performance and an even greater level of everyday riding value. The Bandit’s fuel-injected engine is in naked view below a wind-breaking half fairing that boosts the bike’s long-ride capabilities. Welcome back Bandit.
Powering the Bandit 1250S ABS is a 1255cc liquid-cooled and fuel-injected engine using dual overhead cams to generate peak torque from relatively low in the rev range, plus a long curve of high-rpm power for confident highway cruising. A high-capacity radiator and liquid-cooled oil cooler keep the engine performing at its best. Power is delivered through a 6-speed transmission using gear ratios chosen to suit the broad character of this motorcycle, from city commuting to freeway cruising.
The Bandit’s state-of-the-art Suzuki Dual Throttle Valve (SDTV) technology, a digital closed-loop fuel-injection system, gives superb throttle response feel, extra-smooth power delivery, improved mileage and reduced emissions. Suzuki’s proven Pulsed-AIR (PAIR) system injects fresh air from the airbox into the exhaust ports, igniting unburned hydrocarbons and reducing carbon monoxide emissions. A catalyzer, built into the high-volume exhaust silencer, further cuts down on hydrocarbon, carbon monoxide and nitrogen oxide emissions.
Bandit 1250S ABS
The 2016 Suzuki Bandit 1250S ABS features a refined half-fairing, adding wind protection that improves its aerodynamics and sport-touring capability, while keeping the bike’s eye-catching engine on display. A fairing vent just below the headlight reduces buffeting and improves airflow past rider and passenger.
The Bandit’s chassis is engineered to provide the balanced rigidity that gives it sporty performance along with touring stability. The Bandit 1250S ABS has a single rear shock that works with a progressive, rising-rate link system designed to respond smoothly to road irregularities. Rear shock rebound damping and spring preload are adjustable. Increasing the comfort potential, the Bandit features a seat-height adjustment that allows the contoured seat to be raised or lower 20mm (0.5 in.) with a simple change of mounting spacer positions.
Braking is handled by fully floating 310mm-diameter dual front discs with four-piston calipers, and a 240mm-diameter rear disc with a single-piston caliper. Digital Anti-lock Brake System (ABS)* monitors wheel speed, and matches stopping power to available traction.
The 2016 Suzuki Bandit 1250S ABS will be available in Red or Black, for a suggested retail price of $9,899. The Suzuki Bandit 1250S ABS will be available at your local Suzuki dealership in late July/early August.
Key Features:
- 1255cc liquid-cooled fuel-injected engine uses dual overhead cams and delivers extra-smooth acceleration.
- The 6-speed transmission has carefully selected gear ratios for strong acceleration and relaxed highway cruising
- A maintenance-free secondary balancer shaft produces smooth engine operation.
- Suzuki Dual Throttle Valve (SDTV)-equipped fuel injection brings better response feel, smoother power output, and reduced emissions.
- Cylinder bores are finished with long-wearing Suzuki Composite Electrochemical Material (SCEM), just like the GSX-R sportbikes, for excellent heat transfer.
- A chrome-nitride coating, applied to each piston’s upper compression and oil control rings using a physical vapor deposition (PVD) vacuum chamber system, is harder and smoother than conventional chrome plating, resulting in reduced friction and precise cylinder sealing.
- Liquid-cooled oil cooler augments the aluminum radiator to help keep the engine running cool.
- Antilock Braking System (ABS)* monitors wheel speed, and matches stopping power to available traction.
- The Bandit’s classic tube-frame chassis is engineered to provide excellent balance between sporty handling and highway cruising comfort.
- 43mm-stanchion-tube front forks and single rear shock absorber are both spring-preload-adjustable.
- Fully floating 310mm-disc dual front brakes with 4-piston calipers. The rear brakes use a 240mm disc with single-piston caliper.
- Seat height can easily be adjusted up or down 20mm (0.5 in.).
- Convenient center stand is standard equipment.
- The sleek half-fairing has an integrated multi-reflector headlight and an effective windscreen. Just below that screen, an analog tachometer, LCD digital speedometer, plus an LCD fuel gauge, clock, and indicator lights provide easy-to-read information.
*ABS is a supplemental device for brake operation, not a device for shortening stopping distance. Always remember to reduce speed sufficiently before approaching curves and corners.
TU250X
2016 Suzuki TU250X
The 2016 Suzuki TU250X is a retro single with a classic style mated to modern motorcycle technology and efficiency. Classic styling shows in its chrome-plated front and rear wheels, headlight case, speedometer cover, tail lamp housing, front suspension outer tube and polished crank side case produce a beautiful, high quality look.
Its up-to-date design is delivered in the 249cc, air-cooled four-stroke, single-cylinder, SOHC engine with Suzuki’s industry leading fuel injection system is tuned for strong low-end torque well-suited for city riding. It features the Suzuki Dual Throttle Valve fuel-injection system like that used on Suzuki’s high-performance motorcycles, plus a digital ignition and emissions systems designed to keep it burning clean.
The ultra-friendly TU250X uses a five-speed manual transmission, and features a 3.2-gallon fuel tank, plus a low seat height of 30.3 inches.
The TU250X is available in a Metallic Orange / Black combination at a retail price of $4,399. The TU250X is not available in California. The Suzuki TU250X will be available at your local Suzuki dealership in late July.
GSX-S1000 ABS
How about a standard with the big single
Love that blue color. Awesome bike. The only thing I can’t figure out is why anyone would sell a comfortable, functional, ride-every-day bike like the GSX-S …. without a center stand. That’s a big miss. I’d never by a chain driven bike without one.
It’s supposed to be a sporty bike. I wouldn’t want a centerstand but it could be an option.
There are threaded bobbins on the swingarm, so all is not lost.
The GSXSF needs a longer tail so at least a set of aftermarket soft bags could be thrown on. I like the fact Suzuki is finally putting new product out.
I just want cruise control and self-cancelling indicators.
Is the Bandit 1250 torquier or powerfuller than the S1000?
Depends what you mean by “torquier” I suppose. Max torque will probably be very similar on both bikes, but I imagine the bandit will have more of it below 4K rpms if that is important to you. Max power will not. The GSX-S will be much more powerful and a good bit lighter, too. I haven’t heard of any of these models offering cruise control or self canceling indicators. I’m a big cruise control fan myself.
Sometimes I get the feeling that the readers of this website are well into their 60s….
so?
So it means that you’re not the demographic that these products are intended to appeal to. So your comments are basically irrelevant in the context of what the manufacturer is trying to achieve.
So, you are correct.
Gsx-s1000 looks magic but wheres the pillion seat? My wife won’t approve that. I’m sure the clever cookies at Suzuki could have made it just as attractive with a good seat.
I like the s1000f but really wish they would put top shelf super sport components on these kinds of bikes oh well/
Then it would cost $14,000+… just like the supersports with top-shelf components do.
And even then, isn’t having Brembo Monoblocs, fully-adjustable inverted forks, traction control, and ABS isn’t enough? There are $20,000 touring bikes out there without most (or any!) of those things. This is an $11,000 street bike!
I’d have to agree that everything seems pretty top shelf.
i’m willing to pay for a Supersport so I wouldn’t have a problem paying for one with a more comfortable riding position. This package is ok and you can definitely have fun on it but I don’t want a bargain version of a supersport I want the real deal with a better rider triangle that simple.
Did you miss the part where it has Brembo brakes and fully-adjustable suspension? If you’re so focused on premium running gear I’m sure you’re the type of guy who replaces the shock on every bike he owns anyway (I do that), so what’s the problem?
This is a lot of bikes nobody will buy! Manufactures need four bikes, a full sport for the racers, a standard for guys who don’t want a cruiser, an adventure bike for the ride to starbucks and a touring bike for those who actually do long distance. Make these top notch instead of spreading piles of money on bikes that just sit in the showroom.
What about cruisers – for short people who want to go to Starbucks, dirt bikes to put in the back of your lifted truck, and scooters for people who don’t care what others think?
I’ve spent around $65,000 on bikes over the last 20+ years, and not one of the street bikes among them was in any of the categories you mentioned.
Just exaggerating slightly, every guy I have ever known, has owned and ridden a Gixxer. And all of them agree their Gixxer riding years was the best ones of their lives ( except for those for whom they were the last ones of their life…. 🙁 ) All of them are now overweight, semi arthritic cripples who couldn’t for the life of them wrap their aging bods around an R1. But, for the first time in decades, they have time to ride, instead of watching their kids play hockey and soccer every bloody weekend of the year……etc., etc…
I don’t now whether this bike will sell or not. But just as Marquez would have been the “correct” bet before this season, even if it later turned out he probably won’t win; this bike is the correct way for Suzuki to spend their resources.
I bought new (to me) GSX-R750s (an 08 and a 12) at 47 and 50 years old for track days…
The 20 minutes on and 40 minutes off schedule means I can enjoy the bike even at my age, weight, back strength.
Not giving that up any time soon – just have to keep getting in better shape.
NOTHING is as exhilarating as riding your SportBike at the track….NOTHING
Hey, sportbikes are popular again. btw won’t the Bandit compete with the Vstrom 1000?
The era of motorcycles having adjustable range of positions for controls is about 35 years past due. Pray tell, what is the estimated lifespan for any other motorized vehicle with fixed range of controls? Three weeks?
The fact this is even remotely acceptable is pure fail IMHO.
If there was greater seat/foot control spacing on any of the 1000s, every single one would look infinitely more attractive. Yes, I admit I’m on the extreme end with 34″+ inseam. But just look at how tiny is the pilot in the images. And even he lacks appropriate knee extension for a long day ride.
Increasing seat to foot control spacing adds at least 10% to the purchase price. What a miserable state of affairs.
And to top off this indignity, motorcycles still have air conditioning or windshield wipers! 😉
Uh, that’s NO air conditioning.
Yes they do have air conditioning, it’s just not in sync with outside temps! You get warm air in summer and cool or cold air otherwise. 🙂
Given current sport tire grip levels, the combination of decent lean angle and touring legroom for giants like you, require GS/A like seat heights. Just suck it up and get the Multidtrada you’ve always wanted 🙂 The new ones (with VVT) supposedly even run right. Or perhaps the big Versys or new Yammy if you prefer limiting Italianness to your sig.
or stay tuned for the KTM 1299 SM-T
WOW! That Bandit is CHEAP! Cheaper than a Ducati Monster 821 and costs pretty close to Triumph Bonneville T100 or Moto Guzzi V7… Actually, pretty much every bike on the planet is looking OVER PRICED…!
1250cc water cooled inline-4 for just 9.9K’s… Sure, its just around 100 or so BHP but most people including me don’t need more horses for street riding… Its TORQUE that matters, and that Bandit got plenty…
Development and assembly machinery costs have probably been paid ages ago… I remember reviews of the GSX 1200 FA (and of the previous model 1000cc V-Strom too FWIW) pointing they do 90% of other, more expensible bikes for a fraction of the price. The problem is we always lust for that remaining 10%…
100hp… why that is pretty close to the $184,000 Honda raced replica!
I would love to see a comparison!
?
Not having reasonable passenger accommodations and at least the option of integrated luggage on the F model is a total and complete fail by Suzuki. That is no “Sport-Touring” bike.
I don’t consider this class of bike comfortable or useful for traveling any great distances. Better off using it for day rides and commuting. They’re a blast if used for their intended purpose. The Bandit comes closest to fulfilling your need to go places, but the others are really just fun bikes to get out and ride IMO.
It would be really nice if Suzuki would knock about 50 lbs. off of the Bandit 1250. At that point it would be at least a partial redesign, but it doesn’t look like Suzuki can afford that with the current state they’ve run there company down to unfortunately.
Yes, the total and complete failure comes because 100% of all potential customers need spacious and well-appointed passenger accommodations and factory luggage. Ok, not really. Also, the only place “Sport-Touring” appears on this page pertaining to the GSX-S1000F is in your post.
This bike looks like an excellent competitor to the Ninja 1000 (apart from the absence of a luggage option, which I do agree is less than optimal). Folks have been pining away for more comfortable sporty bikes to ride that don’t come with a crap-suspension and terribly neutered motor. The Ninja 1000 fills these desires quite nicely, and this looks to join that still-too-small fraternity.
I personally have spent a lot of money, time, and effort transforming bikes into my version of what a good street bike is (personal fave: CBR1100XX w LSL bar kit, Race Tech forks/Penske shock, full Givi 3-box setup) and now it’s looking like folks like me can just go to the shop and buy one. I love this trend, and I hope it continues.
I do appreciate that you were willing to fill the role of eCurmudgeon in this comments list though, as I was beginning to lose faith in the MD readership! 🙂
Actually Suzuki “themselves” have marketed the “F” version as a “Sport-Tourer”. I’ve been following these bikes since they were first announced. I also got to check out the “naked” version in person at the IMS. The bike looked and felt very compact for a 1000, and appeared to be very well built. Anyone that comes out with a bike like this that has reasonable passenger accommodations and an integrated luggage option that doesn’t cost over $15,000 will get my money. By adding those features they would in no way “lose” any potential buyers, but rather they would add “many”, but by not offering them on a bike that clearly would appeal to a much broader range of buyers, they have committed the good ‘ol Suzuki Hara-kiri, just like they have been for many years now. Suzuki needs to get some right thinking people in there calling the shots before all is lost. Bankruptcy may not be far off at this rate.
Ok, so no, they have not been marketing the bike as a “Sport-Tourer” as you keep calling it. Nowhere in any literature on this bike has that term ever once been used, and nothing at IMS indicated it as a sport tourer. You must not have been following very closely (which is supposed to be a good thing), because it simply isn’t so. Saying it over and over again will not make it true.
I didn’t say anything about how adding bags would be a bad idea. I simply said that they aren’t calling it a sport touring bike, so it’s a little silly to criticize it for not being one.
Actually yes, it was said to be a Sport Tourer at least once or twice over the past year from Suzuki, but no, it’s not mentioned that way on their site. But regardless, as I’ve said, without them providing decent passenger accommodation and at least the option for integrated luggage they have unnecessarily limiting the audience for this bike. But on the other hand I’m sure that if it were so equipped they foresaw it stealing some sales away from their V-Strom 1000 and their old relic the Bandit 1250S they plan on trying to milk for a bit longer here. Not a smart move IMO, but we’ll see how it works out for them. The GSX1000F set up right could cover all of the real-world uses of those two others in one bike.
I wouldn’t buy it if they made it any larger and less sporty. The smaller the better in my book, doesn’t even need a back seat for all I care.
But the bike Sentinal is envisioning is a good one. Imagine if you will a bike similar to the old GS1100G Suzuki, with shaft drive, only lighter, more powerful with an updated GSXR motor, comfortable ergos, better handling, better brakes and the ability to carry a rear passenger relatively comfortably and the ability to add luggage. Sort of a Ninja 1000 type Suzuki GSXR with shaft drive.
the Bandit is a very much under rated bike but it is 20 years old in technology it seems and has never sold well..ever, and it’s not going to sell well now.
That pretty much sums it up brother. Thanks for saying it so well.
Ahh, the Bandit… The bike I almost bought instead of my early gen Vstrom 1000. Liked the Vstrom a bit more at the time (stronger, more modern, etc…).
Now that my old Vstrom is getting a bit long in the tooth (though I STILL have a hard time thinking about replacing it at only 50k miles, and no real issues) the new Bandit looks a LOT better to me than the new Vstrom, with it big beak, and beady little headlight!
I think it would make an excellent replacement as my commuting and long distance do it all… Top case for around town, and bags all around for weeks of touring and camping.. Course, several other bikes could do it as well (Kawasaki Versus 1000 for instance, or one of the Yamaha 900’s). Its a good time to be in the bike market!
That pretty much sums it up brother. Thanks for saying it so well.
I like them just can’t understand why not just a simple roundish headlight and do we need the plastic around the rad? Looks like the mark of Zorro.
Wish they would make a 400cc Bandit.
(again).
I don’t think there is any 400cc 4 banger left on the market.
Yami Diversion 400, Bandit 400 and God knows which Honda are not in the market nor they have replacement.
Price is probably the reason.
On the curious note side I didn’t know that until 2007 Yami had one available: Yamaha XJR400.
Twins are generally more rideable in smaller displacements. A 400 is just as hard/expensive to make as a 600 (600’s were born from boring 400’s for the US market) so in markets without a 400cc catch weight it’s too easy to choose the bigger bike.
absolutely agree.
now that you mention the market thing it’s highly possible that japan still have those models….
Google throws this…
http://bikerpat.blogspot.com/2007/06/history-of-modern-400cc-superbike.html
short answer: no.
And the same can be said for 600s vs liters. Which kind of ends up being a bit sad. I keep banging my head against the wall reminding all within earshot, that the fuel that stoked the last, great wave of sport bike buying, was bikes from the F2 era making 90hp and being kitted with the latest in technology. Back then, that took 600cc. While my FZR1000 had 135. Now, 600s have 135, and 90 could be done with 400ccs. Which, in sport bike sensibilities, means it should be done with 400ccs.
The bikes look good, and should appeal to those who want strong street performance without having to pay track performance prices.
I sort of like the new Bandit, I am looking for SPORT-touring bike, so if it comes with decent side bags, then I will defiantly check it out.
If I do get one the exhaust and blinkas would have to go……..
You can’t argue with the price, I look forward to some road test results.
No need to be defiant.
I had a Bandit 1250. I thought it was heavy, but I had a full set of Givi luggage on it. If I had just left it alone it would have been fine.
If you like bikes with torque, the Bandit is it. Get on a twisty road, pick your gear, and roll on and off. Like an electric bike, except the Bandit has the muffler from a Peterbilt to remind you it’s internal combustion.
should we thank yamaha for the low prices?
Thank the exchange rates. That’s part of Yamaha’s price structure too.
Yep. Been almost 10 years since the rates were like this.
Just be thankful period. Here in Ecuador due to a 100% import tariff those $10,000 bikes cost us $20,000.
Ouch.
Sounds like a lot of bike for the money for those 1000s.
The GSX-S1000F model, though a bit goofy-looking, is a type of bike that I’ve been waiting for for some time. Judging by the claimed naked bike’s wet weight of 456 lbs, the faired one should be what… 475? And if the engine isn’t ridiculously de-tuned, the old GSX-R engine (as I can gather from the fellows I work with that are dedicated “Gixxer guys”) from 2005 is an especially good one.
The ABS should be handy; the traction control I could give or take, and it’s not a factor in my mind. The full-adjustable front and rear suspension, along with Brembo monoblocs, though, really add quite a bit of value to a full-sized, faired sportbike that’s actually meant for street use, without the ridiculous ergonomics of a supersport. All of this for $200 less than the MSRP of the GSX-R600. And judging by Americans’ buying habits, unfortunately and fortunately, there will probably be a new-old-stock leftover on a showroom somewhere for me to snag up for about $9000 OTD… So, a lightweight (considering the competition), fully-faired sportbike with great power, good ergos, and extremely comprehensive equipment for *less* than the machines that aren’t as good of road bikes?
I do find it amusing that Suzuki refers to such an oversquare engine as a “long-stroke” engine, though! 🙂
My only concern is whether or not suitable luggage options will be available! Though, that’s a secondary concern; my FZ6 can still do the long hauling if need be… this one would be just for fun. Now, I just gotta save up some “disposable” income!
“And if the engine isn’t ridiculously de-tuned, the old GSX-R engine (as I can gather from the fellows I work with that are dedicated “Gixxer guys”) from 2005 is an especially good one.”
As the previous owner of a K5 Gixxer, at no point did I ever apply throttle on that bike and think to myself, “Gee, this thing sure could use some more torque.” It was extremely powerful even at low revs. So I don’t really get the decision to re-tune other than the acknowledgement that these bikes would otherwise be as just about as mean as the GSX-R1000, which Suzuki might consider faux pas.
“Re-tuned for torque” is just marketing speak to dispel the incorrect notion that an inline four can’t cruise around at low RPM. This way they hope to lure more of the v-twin crowd, even though an inline-four typically has quite a bit more torque than a similar sized twin already.
It also enables Suzuki to limit revs to where they can tune the engine to comply with current emission standards.
“is just marketing speak to dispel the incorrect notion that an inline four can’t cruise around at low RPM.”
Marketers have been using that speak forever, now, to little avail. Some minds you just can’t change. People, even motojournalists, still talk about “V-twin torque”.
Boyz, boyz, boyz! What to do?
Max torque output of almost any twin or multi in a given displacement is close to the same, plus or minus. But because of tuning for extra horsepower the torque peak on most multis is pushed higher in the rev range which is how greater horsepower is achieved. Doing that often sacrifices torque numbers down low in the rev range comparatively. So when it is said that an engine is retuned for torque (typically torque is used to mean low end grunt) it means some of the tuning for high-end horsepower is eased which fattens the torque band down low. It is not to say that a multi can’t cruise around at low rpm. But whack open the throttles at low rpm and that highly tuned multi just may need a downshift to bring things to full boil quickly. I see nothing wrong in the terminology used or the benefit of tuning different engines for different uses. You’re reading too much into this.
“You’re reading too much into this.”
I am familiar with the terminology and what it means. I also know that when somebody says they “want more torque”, what they really mean is that they want more horsepower lower in the rev range. My point is that the K5 does not need to be “tuned for torque” – it has plenty high and low in the rev range. I think Suzuki could have made more of a statement leaving it full power mode and still have an engine that stomps around with authority at lower rpms.
Then you know also that low end torque values can be lost in comparisons when displacement goes up. I have a hard time thinking that Suzuki, or any other manufacturer, would go to the trouble to produce another motor with differing specs when they could just dump the same lump in it and call it a day if there wasn’t value in it. A marketing ploy, I’m not sold on that.
Other than certain individuals wanting like-spec engines in their nakeds as their Supersport counterparts, all brands seem to provide lower spec, enhanced low-end power nakeds. I believe it’s because they feel that appeals more to the prospective buyer than having maximum warp drive of the sport variants.
When you have an engine that is tuned to the point where all the usable power is north of 7K rpms, I agree that there is value in re-tuning it for a street application. However, that is not the case with the K5 engine. Compare dyno charts and you’ll see that it goes just about tit for tat from 3000 – 7000 rpms with a Buell XB12 or Ninja 1000, two bikes that are hardly slackers in the low-end power department. In fact, it would chart very similarly to BMW’s supernaked from idle to redline – which sports a “tuned for torque” S1000RR mill.
My premise is that the engine is already a torque-tuned, high-performance powerplant making similar torque to other 1000cc engines in the elite class (Tuono, S1000R) and similar horsepower to all other players in the class. Sure, Suzuki can re-tune the K5 and make it even more beastly down low. But it just doesn’t need it, and I think it would send a more effective message to the market to have a naked/sport touring bike that can duke it out with the elite bikes in the category from a performance perspective.
I don’t agree Suzuki are trying to lure v-twin lovers with ad copy because that just doesn’t work. But I do believe the Japanese OEMs like to keep respectable performance margin between their superbikes and everything else.
GSXR750 inline four, 64ft-lb torque. Honda Shadow Spirit 750 V-twin, 47ft-lb torque.
Torque is primarily a factor of displacement, correct. However, it is much easier and efficient shoving a bunch of air through straight intakes and multiple small diameter valves in a four than taking numerous turns and wallowing through a large single intake valve in a v-twin.
I rode the K5 and it has more than enough torque to keep anyone but the complete nutters entertained. Just hold the throttle open and there’s enough horsepower there to scare just about anyone. No way I could use that much power on the street, there’s just ain’t enough room! So if they re-tuned it for more bottom end we will have an even bigger helping of the stuff that makes street bikes exciting to ride. I don’t know about you, but I don’t live anywhere near a racetrack so these “tuned for torque” Suzukis would entertain me just fine ( and then some!)
I would agree that ease in making big horsepower goes to multi cylinder and multi-valve bikes, etc. but that isn’t always the objective on a particular bike. That’s why we have different engine designs meant for different purposes.Again, unless you’re talking peak numbers, which I think you are, there’s a whole lot of space below that. How an engine behaves and where and when it develops its power is dictated by many factors. I believe I read elsewhere that the S1000 utilizes different cams in order to bolster the bottom end.
The GSXr750 torque ranges from about 3500 to over 14000rpm, all the while making as much or more torque than the Shadow 750. The Shadow’s torque band, however, only spans from 2500 to 5000 rpm, never more than the Gixxer. V-twin torque is just a myth.
When people usually talk about V-twin torque, they are siting numbers from a 101 inch twin vs a 600cc four.
When people talk of an engine having torque they mean that it responds to the throttle with punch well down low in the rpm range. Conversely, the opposite is true when an engine needs to rev higher before things happen.
I find your example of two bikes interesting as one is a mildly tuned cruiser bike, the other a fairly highly tuned sportbike. The VT750 has a very linear power curve and plateau straight torque curve. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh171/lone_slider/aae63606-38b5-4cad-a56e-593dbdefbe69_zpsbd41b09a.jpg At little over 2,000 rpm the VT is close to producing it’s max torque figure. According to Sportrider http://www.sportrider.com/sites/sportrider.com/files/styles/medium_1x_/public/import/page_element_images/146-1109-13-z%2B2011-suzuki-GSX-R750%2Bdyno.jpg?itok=GCNxum9V the GSX-R750 (2011) produces a peak torque figure of 53.7 ft-lb of torque at 11,000rpm. While it produces usable torque down to just under 3,000 rpm it’s quite a bit lower at that engine speed than the VT, registering just under 25 ft-lb and must rev to about 5,000 rpm to equal the VT’s output.
This is all quite common. Highly tuned engines tend to give up some torque production on the low end until all its go-fast parts start playing nice together and things start to get interesting. This is all I’ve been saying all along. Call it a myth all you like. If you hear all about this from people with 101 inch twins then what can I say other than you hang around the wrong crowd! 🙂
“This is all I’ve been saying all along.”
I think that is what everyone has been saying all along and we are just getting lost in semantics. It isn’t a question of v-twin vs. i-4: it is a matter of highly-tuned vs. mildly tuned engines for a given displacement. A 750cc i-4 can be tuned to run just like a 750 v-twin. Match the total valve area, cam timing and intake velocities to your v-twin of choice, and you’ll have an GSXR that plots its curves like a VT750. The twin won’t have enough available valve area for the reverse to be true however (trying to tune it as highly as the i-4), which is why we have 1299cc instead of 1000cc Panigales.
Yes, you could do all that but certain engines are typically used in different types of bikes. You know how predominant V-twins are when it comes to cruisers. I think just about all other engine types have been tried but many people just think cruising and V-twin are synonymous. Ducati circumvents the big piston, big valve issue with their Desmo valvetrain to help keep things going in the right direction at higher rpm. KTM prefers to stick with their big twins also.
The comments Todd has made makes me think he gets into a battle of words with HD riders he knows or comes across often enough that he’s here to dispel V-twins as being useless and hold no advantage over a four when it comes to how they produce power. I don’t agree.
Interesting that Suzuki is choosing to NOT build a beaked adventure tourer based on a four-cylinder. VStroms are piling up, unsold and heavily discounted, at dealerships throughout California.
Then again, Kawaski Versyses (Versi?) also do not appear to be selling.
I just saw the GSX-750S in grey at a dealer today. Much better looking in person than in pictures, although from head on the radiator cool shrouds, Gave it a tiny bit of B-Kingish look.
Bet these nakeds are nice bikes.
That Bandit is like a cockroach – it just won’t die!
why it should? it has a lot of nice qualities: lots of torque, bulletproof engine, a-ok handling, just enough fairing, easy to give maintenance, simple.
Economy demands to extract all the money you can from already made D&R investments, e.g. GS500 + fairings is still alive (on carburetors).
Coincidentally, when you thumb the horn it plays “La Cucaracha”.