Valentino Rossi has appealed the decision by the FIM to assign 3 penalty points to him as a result of the clash with Marc Marquez at Sepang to the international Court of Arbitration for Sport in Lausanne, Switzerland. In addition to seeking an elimination, or reduction, of the penalty points assigned him, in perhaps a brilliant move, Rossi has asked the Court to stay the execution of the penalty until after the race at Valencia on November 8.
In other words, if Rossi successfully obtains a stay of execution, even if he ultimately loses the appeal, the grid position penalty would be imposed at Qatar when the MotoGP series opens next year, rather than at Valencia, which would allow Rossi to pass through the normal qualification process and start much higher on the grid.
To remind our readers of the context, Rossi leads Yamaha teammate Jorge Lorenzo by 7 points in the championship going into the final race at Valencia. Currently, the penalty requires Rossi to start last on the grid, substantially reducing the likelihood he will be champion this year.
Here is the press release from CAS issued earlier today:
Lausanne, 30 October 2015 – Italian MotoGP rider Valentino Rossi has filed an appeal at the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) against the FIM Stewards’ decision to impose 3 penalty points on his record following an incident with another rider during the Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix race held on 25 October 2015.
The FIM Race Direction found that Mr Rossi deliberately ran wide in order to force the other rider off line, resulting in contact causing the other rider to crash out of the race. For this breach of the FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Regulations (the FIM Regulations), the FIM Race Direction imposed 3 penalty points on the rider’s record. Mr Rossi immediately appealed such decision to the FIM Stewards who dismissed the appeal and confirmed the penalty imposed by the FIM Race Direction. Since Valentino Rossi already has 1 penalty point from an earlier incident, this decision brings him to a total of 4 penalty points. On the basis of the FIM Regulations, a rider with 4 penalty points must start the next race from last grid position.
In his appeal to the CAS, Mr Rossi seeks the annulment of the penalty, or at least a reduction from 3 points to 1. Together with his appeal, Mr Rossi has filed an urgent application to stay the execution of the challenged decision in order not to lose his place on the starting grid at the next, and last, event of the season which will be held in Valencia/Spain on 6-8 November 2015.
An arbitration procedure is in progress. A decision on Mr Rossi’s request for a stay is expected to be issued no later than 6 November 2015.
See more of MD’s great photography:
If Rossi succeeded in the appeal, then I guess it would be a stroke of genius!
Honda, errr, I mean, Lorenzo, wins in the Rossi CAS appeal…
http://superbikeplanet.com/2015/Nov/151105denied.htm
I`m not a Rossi fan, as in I`m not against him either, but upon saying that, Lorenzo still has to finish the race and with Dani and Marc in pretty good form, then rossi could still finish 4th behind lorenzo and still win the title.
after watching the slow mo video…is is quite evident that marquez rammed into and leaned on rossi’s left leg..rossi responded by pushing marquez away…perfect response. marquez should be penalized for initiating the contact. rossi punishment is completely bogus.
I guess that can be applied to any sport where an illusion can be made…eg Rugby Union tries that weren`t, or English Premier League trips that weren`t.
So Lorenzo’s got Lawyers in this now…
http://superbikeplanet.com/2015/Nov/151103jorgelorenzo.htm
I have a saying: “Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, always ask yourself: ‘Am I in the Tool Shed?'”
Well it sells news!!
only one person got this right so far….correct fossi was in front and has the track, how can someone press another riders BRAKE lever as there is an anti tamper device to combat such. it was plain to see Marquez WAS helping Lorenzo..whether Lorenzoknew is another matter…..but if he did, he and Marquez has destroyed the motogp integrity forever.
Maybe true, but how bloody wide should one go on the track?
Just postpone the penalty and let there finally be a race for the championship.
from somebody blog:
Let’s go straight to the facts:
Marquez was helping Lorenzo, it doesn’t matter if he wanted Lorenzo to win the championship or just Rossi to lose.
By holding Rossi, he was helping Lorenzo.
Iannone noticed Marquez was helping Lorenzo and tried to help Rossi, showing their racing lines once he watched Marquez towing Lorenzo.
Yamaha is not giving a shit about the incident, they’re not supporting Rossi.
My personal belief:
Ducati doesn’t want Rossi to win, it would look awful for them “Rossi won with Honda, switched to Yamaha and won, switched to Ducati and went shit, came back to Yamaha and won”.
Iannone wanted to help Rossi by holding either Marquez or Lorenzo. Given the fact Ducati is more a factory than a racing team, I think that they forced Iannone to stay back, which he refused to, and retired instead.
Race facts:
Iannone was faster than Dovizioso, he was the only one able to hold Lorenzo or Marquez
Dovi got in front of Iannone with shitty racing lines, making Iannone slow, Iannone didn’t want to take a risk to overtake his own team mate, which made Lorenzo overtake both of them
Immediatly after Lorenzo got in front of Dovizioso, Dovi started to race normal, but still blocking Iannone for no reason
Marquez ran wide on purpose to let Lorenzo pass and didn’t try to fight back at all, not even a single time. If you say “Marquez didn’t know Lorenzo was behind him”, I will reply “bullshit, even if he didn’t know, he had the pace to overtake anyone who got in front of him”.
As soon as Lorenzo pass Marquez, Marquez lap times went shit to block Rossi. I’m not saying Rossi was riding slow, but once there’s a rider in front of you, you HAVE to slow down to avoid contact.
Rossi noticed Marquez was slow and tried to overtake him, maybe Marquez was having mechanical failures or something, who knows? Marquez fought back. And again, and again, and again. So Marquez didn’t fight back Lorenzo because he didn’t want to. That’s it.
Rossi noticed Marquez was fighting him on purpose, but as long as Rossi could finish 3rd that was ok, he had the confidence to let Lorenzo and Pedrosa go, and save tyres fighting with Marquez.
Once Rossi is better than Marquez at saving tyres, Rossi knew he could get 3rd easily.
Marquez started making dangerous and unnecessary passes.
Rossi noticed that, tried to avoid some.
Marquez started forcing Rossi out of his line on purpose, Rossi came out of the footpeg twice in different corners, then he realized Marquez was not fighting with him for the show, he was trying to make Rossi crash
Rossi signaled to Marquez “come on, let’s do this”. Rossi’s crew nodded their head like “don’t do this” because they knew Rossi could crash doing that.
Now, the incident:
Rossi was in front of Marquez
For those who don’t know: if you’re in front, you HAVE THE RIGHT to go slow or go wide, you HAVE THE RIGHT of the line.
That’s why Rossi won at Assen, he was ahead of Marquez ALL THE TIME. If someone is behind you, they have to slow down, but they can’t force you out of your line like Marquez did in Assen, he went into Rossi, not into the corner.
Marquez forced Rossi out of the track, he almost made it out of the track himself.
Rossi went wide because he knew Yamaha had better acceleration in corner exit.
Marquez didn’t slow down, he opened the throttle instead of braking. He knew Rossi was wide and he couldn’t overtake Rossi from outside. Come on, he’s riding a Honda, not Yamaha or Suzuki to do that.
Marquez started losing the front because of the leaning. Once again: It’s a Honda, not Yamaha or Suzuki.
Marquez laid his head on Rossi’s knee, because if he lost the front while making contact with Rossi, he could force his head on Rossi’s knee making a point of contact, so the bike would slide and touch Rossi’s front tyre, crashing together
Rossi noticed Marquez was forcing his head on his knee, which was not safe because he didn’t know how much force would Marquez apply to his knee
Rossi shoved his head off with his knee to avoid crashing together
Marquez lost his point of contact and crashed, because, obviously, no point of contact anymore
Once again:
“For those who don’t know: if you’re in front, you HAVE THE RIGHT to go slow or go wide, you HAVE THE RIGHT of the line.”
Except of course if you’re Marquez and you are upsetting Rossi. In that case you are riding unfairly even dangerously and deserve to be kicked off your bike. You Rossi fans are so one-eyed it’s a pathetic joke!
Except of course no one was kicked off their bike, not even the guy who was going out of his way to interfere with only one rider in a two-rider duel for the championship.
Rossi fans almost as bad as Saint Senna!
Let’s go straight to the facts…in 2010 Rossi, when out of championship contention, gave Lorenzo absolute hell, instead of helping him win the title! He still won though. Pardon the pun, now the shoe’s on the other er helmut!
With news of available data from MM93’s Honda showing that the front brake lever was suddenly struck, Rossi should just drop the appeal and admit he screwed up. Move on!
……and the data shows what “struck” lever “suddenly”, it can detect that it wasn’t Marc’s fingers that “engaged” the brakes? Available data only shows that the brakes were applied and that is it. Though I did hear Rossi pulled a switchblade on him 2 corners prior to the “incident”, that guy is OUT OF CONTROL!!!!
That is incorrect. The electronics log the amount of pressure applied and the rate of change.
Ok, they must have a transducer or some other type of setup. (which makes sense to me) Either way it cannot say what made contact with the brake lever. The switchblade though, that happened. 🙂
Ok, so they have a pressure transducer or something to monitor the force in which the brakes were “applied”. It still has no bearing on the “incident”. A good tidbit to know though, thanks for the info.
I heard the switchblade sensor data was inconclusive.
Rossi has always been stealthy with a blade. 🙂
How about the unthinkable?
Rossi – “I apologize, I lost my head and messed up. I’m sorry.”
Marc – “No problem, I’m sorry that I did what I did, I apologize also.”
That kind of stuff goes a long way. Virtually unheard of any more.
Let’s get on with it.
Gosh wouldn’t that be refreshing. Good plan Trpldog
What? And miss all the publicity?
They’d be more of a chance with Doohan n Criville
To tell the truth I was rather enjoying the dicing that was going on between the pair up until the Incident and wish it had continued for another 20 laps. That’s what makes motorcycle racing exciting. Both riders are multi-time World Champions racing for different teams and neither is going to roll over for the other. Neither should. It’s racing at the highest level. Over the years there have been many occasions for both riders where they displayed less than gentlemanly sportsmanship. Neither is an angel. Both are among the best at what they do. As a matter of fact both are very similar with their riding. I believe both parties bore fault in the “incident”. I believe both parties should have received a point or two for blocking/obstructing, and since one of the riders went down in the “incident” that any points received for that race by either party be taken away, with no further penalty going into the next race, or next season for heaven’s sake. I believe RD made the best judgement they could given the facts they had. In the RD meeting Rossi stated his intention was to drive Marquez off the racing line to the edge of the track. A clear violation of the rules. That is fact, beyond question, admitted to by Rossi, and why RD made the decision they did. RD said there was no clear cut evidence of a kick, and I don’t believe there was a kick. I believe Marquez tried to turn Rossi with his body/bike because he was running out of room and thought that was his best/only option to make the turn and stay on the track. I believe there was contact in which somehow Marquez’s brake lever got pushed (by a fairing, by a knee puck, by clothing.. again, who knows, doesn’t matter) and that was the cause of the wreck. I don’t believe Rossi crashed him on purpose and I sure don’t believe Marquez crashed himself by grabbing the brake so he could crash and blame it on Rossi. That’s crazy talk. Who wants to crash even at low speed. Even a slow crash can result in a broken hand, foot or collarbone. Way too much to risk to pull a stupid stunt like that. I agree with the FIM President that this event is poisoning MotoGP. Read the comments here, and at Crash.net and at multiple other outlets and you can see this event is derisive and poisonous. Two weeks ago we were lauding this as the greatest MotoGP season ever, now no matter the outcome of Valencia the season will always be tainted. If Jorge wins people will say it was handed to him and he doesn’t deserve it, especially if Rossi has to start from the back of the grid. I can’t see Rossi over coming that. He would have to get past the 3 other aliens and Iannone. That’s asking a lot, even for Rossi. I don’t think he has that in him anymore. If Lorenzo wins fair and square (meaning he and Rossi start by qualifying positions and Lorenzo scores enough points in the final race to win the WC, he still won’t get credit because Rossi fans will say Rossi was distracted by all the BS of the last 2 weeks. If Rossi wins it would be claimed it was because of his name, and that he is bigger than MotoGP itself, that he got a break from the CAS when he didn’t deserve it. That he cheated in order to win it. Lose/lose/lose/ Everybody loses. I have been watching GP since 1973, a pretty rabid fan. I don’t watch Moto 2, Moto3, or WSBK..only MotoGP. I know at this point I am disgusted and can’t wait for this season to be over. Prior to this I wish it would never end.
We think a lot alike on this subject. Valencia was going to be THE race. Now? Pffff. This really sucks for the fans. Like you said, “lose/lose/lose”. I know there are a lot of Rossi fans out there, but the fanaticism surrounding this incident has really surprised me especially among the normally level-headed bunch that frequents this site.
I disagree. Valencia is shaping up to be EPIC, especially if Rossi is allowed to start where he qualifies. A race for the ages. As an admitted Rossi fan, who has watched MotoGP intensely since 2005, if Lorenzo wins the race, good for him, he deserves it. The fascinating thing will be what Marquez does. If he has the opportunity to pass Lorenzo and take the win, but holds off to shunt Rossi back to third, and thus hand the championship to Lorenzo, that would be dastardly… but still quite a show to see. Can’t wait ’till Sunday. (actually, can’t wait until Friday 11/6 to hear what decision CAS makes.) Wild.
See the claims that Lorenzo didn’t earn it because Marquez didn’t pass him for the win (collusion) are already spinning in your head. Just what I said would happen. Lose, lose, lose.
If he is allowed to start where he qualifies, it will be good. I don’t think that will be the case. Even if he starts from the back, he might get into the fight if Jorge has a bad day. It could be a good race regardless, but this event has definitely sucked the excitement out of it by taking effectively taking the championship out of contention.
I don’t buy into the conspiracy theory that Marquez was intentionally holding Rossi back. That still sounds ludicrous to me. Save that stuff for the zealots.
You say you don’t think Marquez was holding Rossi back in Sepang, but why do you suppose that Race Direction concluded that Marquez was suspiciously speeding up and then slowing down ? If not to screw with Rossi, what was that all about ?
It was probably about racing. But it doesn’t really matter what I think because I don’t really know. Neither does anyone else.
If Valentino has to start from the back and somehow still makes a race of it with Jorge, the drama building with each Rossi move up the leaderboard, that would be beyond epic—a spectacle for the ages. It would be more exciting than a normal race.
Problem is, the chances of that happening are almost nill. Something will have to go seriously wrong for Jorge to fall any further than third, what with Valentino out of the podium mix. I suppose it’s possible Jorge could finish behind both Repsol Hondas and Iannone, but not in Valencia, not when the championship might be at stake if he falls to fourth place.
Still, things could get interesting…
1st place = 25 points
2nd place = 20 points
3rd place = 16 points
4th place = 13 points
5th place = 11 points
6th place = 10 points
7th place = 9 points
8th place = 8 points
9th place = 7 points
10th place = 6 points
11th place = 5 points
12th place = 4 points
13th place = 3 points
14th place = 2 points
15th place = 1 points
Barring any mishaps, a deeply motivated Valentino ought to be able to climb to, what, sixth place? Seventh place? Maybe even fifth place, if Crutchlow has yet another crash, Smith just has a bad day, and Dovi has another meh Dovi race?
I figure Dani will win the race. The question is whether Marquez will pull another Sepang and allow Jorge to pass him, providing Lorenzo a nearly insurmountable points-cushion.
What would be best of all would be if what I just described actually happens, and we have Lorenzo in second and Marquez in third. Now, imagine if by some miracle Rossi somehow makes it up to fourth, and all that stands between #46 and Racing Immortality is Marc Freaking Marquez playing blocker again.
Far-fetched, I know, but that would be a battle to behold.
In any case, if I’m Lorenzo I pray for decent weather and no mechanical/tire gremlins, and, come hell or high water, I make sure to finish on the podium. When merely a ninth-place finish will secure the title for Rossi if I slip to fourth place, there is no way I let Iannone or anyone else not riding a blue and orange Honda beat me. Even just the bottom step of the podium means Rossi has to finish sixth to beat me.
Big difference between having to finish sixth, vs ninth.
It’s fun to think about but, nah, it’s merely the stuff of fantasy. Since Jorge holds the tie-breaker by virtue of having won more races, a second-place finish in Valencia will force Rossi to have to finish third to win the championship.
If it’s a dry track, a whole lotta DNFs or other major issues among the top guys will have to occur for Rossi to climb all the way to third.
Bottom line, short of a stay of the penalty and/or a major Lorenzo screw-up, this championship looks to be his if he just finishes on the podium. It’s almost certainly his if he finishes second.
Regardless, I’m just hoping Rossi shows up on Sunday with a white-hot fire well and truly lit beneath his ass. If this really is the GOAT’s final hurrah, I want it to play out like any classic comeback scene from a “Rocky” movie.
In fact, I wonder whether we can dig up Adrian to whisper, “Just win!” as part of a mid-race video montage, replete with that spine-chilling ringing of the bell…and then Rossi starts picking mofos off left and right; one, two, three and four at a time, until finally a tiny Clubber Marquez appears off in the distance, growing in size with every passing corner….
Let’s do this.
Actually, MM did not “allow” Jorge by. Watching the race MM was too hot into that corner and pushed the front running wide. Riders do that all the time in a good fight. That and MM has complained about the front end of the bike all season putting his butt on tarmac more than a few times. Hence he’s not leading the championship.
As for “holding up” Rossi, time hacks disprove that. Randy Mamola posted times for each rider (Rossi and MM) and it revealed that both were 0.5-0.7 seconds down from the leaders. Which just so happens to be quite a common speed differential when riders are fighting with each other instead of riding clear unopposed laps. In other words, it was good fighting. Each was riding defensive blocking lines into and out of corners leading to the slower times. Again, all normal with a good fight.
Until Rossi got pissed off and acted petulantly instead of just racing. Rossi had just as much possibility of passing MM as finishing behind him. If he had just continued that fight instead of instigating contact (Looking right at a rider and accelerating into his path is instigating contact) was what ruined Rossi’s day.
All that being said, I fully expect Dani and MM to take 1st and 2nd at Valencia with Jorge 3rd, barring accidents/crashes etc. And I fully expect Rossi to easily get up to 8th and fight for 6th or even fifth. If he does that he could easily garner his 10th championship.
I hope CAS doesn’t overturn the FIM/RD ruling. What good is a penalty that is pushed off to another season? Absolutely useless. If it had been anyone else they would have been black flagged. As it was 3 points is considerably less than the precedent 5 points previous riders have received for similar actions. Remember, until Rossi instigated this and started flapping about a conspiracy (whack-a-doodle idea!) this was one of the most enjoyed and talked about seasons for MotoGP since 2006 when Dani crashed out Nicky and VR and Nicky fought till the end.
In any case, Valencia is going to be a good fight. All the top four contenders for a win have both won and crashed out there in the past. Anything can happen. Hopefully CAS doesn’t get involved in deciding the championship. The penalty was fair.
JMHO,
R
Let’s face it, any other driver would have penalized with black flag or no points and worst, but because it was VR, they let it go, he did committed the fault, he lost control and nerves, he will do anything to avoid the penalties points and probably will get away with it, but so much for fair sport or just actions, the name is all what matters now, any other driver would never get away with what VR did
Marquez held Rossi up for two races – Rossi held Marquez for one corner after repeated warnings to him before and during race – penalty needs overturning – he didn’t kick out – marquez turned into him – 100odd kilo Honda leaning on you of course your leg moves ! – paid good money for tickets and flights, Apps and Sky TV to see a fair championship – the spirit of the rules should be the deciding factor here – Forza Vale !!
How can VLJ and Scott be so incredibly sure about an incident that didn’t concern them and happened thousands of miles away from them??? It is just ridiculous to read their comments as they have an “expert” opinion on every possible angle of the incident. Did you guys happen to be in Marquez’s, Rossi’s & Lorenzo’s pits for both entire races and analyze every word, gesture & head nod that occurred during & after the races? Are you guys the brains behind Dorna, FIM, Honda & Yamaha??? Are you lawyers??? What makes you think you have to defend every thread that possibly sheds a dissenting opinion on Rossi being Jesus Christ??? How did he get this far without you being on his staff? Did you have a microphone in Rossi’s helmet for both races and talk him thru it with your obviously omnipotent racing chops? Dirck is there someway to put a maximum number of comments per person per article?
“How can VLJ and Scott be so incredibly sure about an incident that didn’t concern them and happened thousands of miles away from them???”
See, there are these things called “videos,” and….
Never mind.
So…is the irony in your post intentional, or…?
@#%$)@#*%$ HOW CAN I STILL NOT HAVE THIS FIGURED OUT? THAT WAS MEANT FOR “JACKSONK”.
MD, maybe time to look into a board software designed after 1998?
TimC – Are you careful to see which “Reply” link you’re clicking on ? Note that there’s one “Reply” to click on below my “icon” to reply to this note, and a different “Reply” link under jacksonk’s “icon” to reply to HIS post. Do you see what I’m referring to ?
Yes, that’s what’s vexing about this. If it was once or twice I’d think it was me, haven’t finished coffee, etc…but after a few times it’s like WTF
Further, elsewhere someone managed to reply to an entirely wrong post…again, user error is possible but this is pretty craptastic board software regardless…there’s also lack of delete (if you do goof) or even edit for that matter…but the main thing is yes I’m pretty careful about which reply I’m hitting but it seems to keep nesting it down a layer.
The keyword here is opinion, everyone has one.
The pro and official word comes from Dorna.
“makes you think you have to defend every thread”
That’s what we call being a fan.
If it were up to me I would ban MM, VR and JL from next championship, but Moto GP is a business; and in business it’s always about making money.
By grouping me with VLJ, I assume you mean I’m using common sense, logic, experience, and a basic knowledge of physics to put together a rational, organized hypothesis to explain my point of view. I consider that a compliment.
So, thank you!:-)
Let me just say that voicing an opinion is one thing. It’s a free country, everybody is entitled to their opinion, blah, blah, blah. But it seems to me (my opinion only – probably cuz I’m getting older & grumpier) that some on this website have taken a few minutes of video and some internet research and have created a “CSI: MotoGP” narrative that explains exactly what happened and why it happened and why their version is the only way it could have happened. And they continually recount their story to every poster with a dissenting opinion. Again, it’s a free country and that is absolutely their right. But to me it starts to take on a whole condescending Hollywood celebrity preaching to me about gun control, abortion or climate change vibe. Almost like anyone who believes Rossi was wrong in this matter is part of the great unwashed masses who must be forcibly shown the light. Again, maybe it’s just me. I have put my opinion out several times regarding this incident but I certainly don’t claim to know exactly what happened or exactly what each rider was thinking. I’m smart enough to know a short video can’t possibly tell me these things no matter how badly I would like to know the actual truth. And, in reality, nobody has a gun to my head forcing me to read all the comments so I think I’ll just quit.
Sort of like discussing politics.
“Maybe it’s just me.”
It’s just you.
🙂
Rossi’s attitude is win at any cost, this has been apparent for many years. Look at the footage Stoner vs Rossi at Laguna Seca, just 1 such example!
Whether Rossi kicked at Marquez’s bike is irrelevant, the fact that he deliberately ran him wide is unacceptable, any other rider would have been black flagged! He should have had all points removed for the race, and NO penalty for Valencia.
Rossi needs to resign at the end of the season, he has had his time. There is NO place on the race track for this crap!
Please tell me you’re a troll.
This whole “deliberatley ran wide” thing perplexes me really. YES, Rossi ran him wide, but NOT at race pace, they were going pretty slow actually. So quit trying to make it sound so horrible. I’d say it is quite tame vs. the multiple times Marquez looked to cut across Rossi’s front wheel, and bumping into in the overtaking prior to the “incident”.
The bottom line is most folks are biased, myself included. Marquez fans will say that even though he is a douchebag crybaby, he did nothing wrong and didn’t deserve what Rossi did. Rossi fans will know that we are right, and will be content with knowing that everyone is beneath us anyway. 🙂
http://www.foxsports.com/motor/story/marc-marquez-assaulted-italian-reporters-103115
Rossi needs to grow up, step up and claim responsibility for what happened!
First the Repsol garages and now Marc’s family and home?!
Rossi needs to make this right before someone goes too far and gets hurt!!
Ridiculous – Rossi fans should be ashamed…..
So… Rossi and his millions of fans are now responsible for some stupid TV crew being idiots?
Clearly….
No…No…..it’s Marquez fault.
If Rossi had manned up and admitted fault, do you think the news crew would have ever shown up?!
Knock knock puddin head – controversy is over – so are the fanatical idiots……
Really kind if elementary – dont you think???
I’m of the opinion that Marquez messed with Rossi and Rossi retaliated. The penalty was deserved (and Marquez probably deserved a lesser penalty as well). Regardless, I hope Rossi gets the stay and Lorenzo has to win the championship on the track, rather than have it handed to him. An entire season of racing is nearly in the books. Riders, and fans as well, have invested a lot in this season and it would be a shame to have the season decided by sanctions, rather than by performance on the track.
Call me selfish, but I believe we fans deserve to see a race for the championship. Deep down, I wonder if the officials of MotoGP aren’t secretly rooting for the stay as well. They couldn’t ignore what transpired on the track last week, but they will sell more tickets and have a bigger TV audience if Rossi gets the stay. Other than Lorenzo fans, and team Honda and their fans, I can’t imagine there are many people who wouldn’t prefer to see the sanctions imposed the first race next season.
I’m with you. Rossi earned the penalty, but I wouldn’t mind if he got the stay for the sake of the excitement level of the final race, as well.
+2
re: “In other words, if Rossi successfully obtains a stay of execution, even if he ultimately loses the appeal, the grid position penalty would be imposed at Qatar when the MotoGP series opens next year, rather than at Valencia”
the man’s working all the angles, good.
They should change the rules in football, baseball, and soccer, so that if you protested the Referee’s decision, it would be applied to the first game next year. What a concept!
The difference is, in football, baseball, and soccer the ref’s penalty is imposed right then and there, during the game. It’s non-reviewable, and there is no post-game appeals process.
In Sepang the penalty was imposed following a post-race hearing. There was no stop-and-go penalty or black flag penalty issued during the race. Had there been so, there would be no option for an appeal.
it was a joke… Rossi is blaming everyone but himself for his actions.
He’s blaming Marquez. Just Marquez.
And he is correct.
Rossi is taking every action available to give himself the best chance to win the championship. Just like you, or anyone else on the planet, would do if it were you.
So if a judge agrees to hear your death penalty appeal, they should go ahead and execute you on the scheduled day regardless, then hear the appeal after you’re dead? That’s solid logic…
~grins~
Don’t really care about the contact or who did what. Rossi slowed to a relative standstill to force Marc wide… not just a little but seriously wide. Rossi also admitted this was his intention when he did it. Simply put, Rossi stopped racing. He should have received the 1 penalty point if Marc kept it upright. He got the 3 as Rossi created the situation that sent Marc to the tarmac. Similar situation to that of Rossi’s complaints of not too many years ago about slower traffic in his way. If Marc races dirty or aggressive, at least he was still racing.
By “slowing to a standstill,” as you say, Rossi didn’t “force” Marquez to do anything. Marquez had the whole track, and they were going very slowly. He could have easily hung back, veered right, braked, continued on, or exercised any number of other options, all of which would have been better than the one he chose, which was to run wide on his own and then lean directly into Rossi.
Had Marquez simply remained on the racing line, bam, problem solved. Avoiding Rossi was easy, but Marquez had no intention of avoiding Rossi.
And if anyone “stopped racing,” it was clearly Marquez. Harassing another rider instead of trying to race with the guy you just let through is not racing, it’s harassing another rider. Marquez went out of his way to create the situation that led to his fall. Had it been left up to Rossi, Marquez wouldn’t have been anywhere near him.
“Rossi created the situation”. Exactly! This blatant non-racing foul is why Rossi shoulda been black flagged. Go ahead VLJ. Take your best shot.
Already did. It’s being held hostage in “awaiting moderation” status.
: )
But the coffee is good in the Moderation Room, you have to admit!
Well….as I am sure I have written at least several times in past years I can see the ‘master manipulator’ continues to manipulate as only he can.
I would have thought that Repsol Honda would have had their hands well and truly full just trying to!!…I don’t know!!…’win the freaking race’ (Phillip Island). which after all is why they play this game and which they did.
Would they really seriously compromise the possibility of not achieving the desired result of winning the race by over complicating the process, particularly when they have no chance of preventing their main opposition (Yamaha) from taking this years Championship anyway.
Not in their world….no way.
Well, there’s a new Master Manipulator – or “MM” – in town, and he’s already hooked a few people, it seems…
Interesting assessment below DaveM. Strange stuff from Marquez indeed especially with all the denials. I think he would instantly gain a tidal wave of respect if he simply sacked up, held a press conference, admitted his foolish behavior, took responsibility for Sepang, and made his own race at Valencia and let the spotlight shine on VR46 and JL99 where it belongs.
In other developments, Maquez was ambushed by an Italian media group who tried to award him a “Cup Of Sh!t” trophy outside his home.
http://m.crash.net/motogp/news/224768/1/italian-tv-ambush-marquez-at-home.html
I’m sure this will do nothing to calm the situation down. The story grows stranger yet.
…this is dumb. Who are you to say what Marquez is thinking? Get over it, Rossi has lost his cool, ran Marquez wide, made him crash. He got penalized for it, and wont accept it.
Regarding Rossi bringing up Phillip Island at the Sepang press conference…
When I watched Phillip Island initially, my take was that Marquez was “toying” with everyone — at the time, I wasn’t really convinced he was specifically focused on Rossi, but felt he had a lot in reserve, so appeared to be playing with them.
So,I went back and watched Phillip Island. Carefully. Then I went through the lap charts for the top 4 guys. Then went back and watched again. One thing that really caught my eye: With 11 laps to go, Marquez catches Lorenzo pretty easily and takes the lead. He pulls out a small gap, but the 3 behind him get closer together (Lorenzo, Iannone, Rossi). With 9 laps to go, Marquez’s crew shows him this pitboard: (EXACTLY this pitboard)
L8
+0.3
LOREN
+1
Hmm… so I go back with my stopwatch and check what the “+1” is. That’s the gap back to Rossi. Why would Marquez care? Why would anyone care the gap back to someone other than the person behind him, unless he was in a title chase? (and unfortunately, we don’t get to see Marquez’s pit board again — would LOVE to have seen it every lap!)
The next lap, Iannone and Rossi are on top of Lorenzo.
And then, Marquez’s lap time slows .5 to .6 seconds. (he’s been consistently lapping at 1:29.8 plus/minus a tenth).
7 laps to go, Lorenzo easily passes Marquez. 6 laps to go, Iannone easily passes Marquez.
3 laps to go, Iannone does his cool move and gets Rossi and Marquez in one corner, but that doesn’t last long. Marquez passes him a few corners later.
2nd to last lap, and Marquez’s lap time drops a full second, and then an additional .4 in the final lap. Catches Lorenzo with ease, and wins.
Was he messing with Rossi? Maybe not *specifically*, but I feel he was “backing up” Rossi and Ianonne pretty much at will since it’s pretty obvious he had .5-1 second in reserve. And we all know he’s more than talented enough to do this if he wanted to. The other thing to watch with Marquez is his physical demeanor on the bike. When he’s at 101%, it’s plain to see compared to when he’s at 95%. (which is pretty much why I thought he was toying with them when I watched the race).
After an entire evening of going through Phillip Island video and lap charts, I believe Rossi was absolutely correct in his assessment of that race. Was he correct in bringing it up at the Press Conference? That’s for others to debate…
Nice work, Dave M. That’s really interesting about the +1 at the bottom of his pit board. I suppose that could be just about anything, but if he was really keeping track of the gap to Rossi, that would really be a smoking gun, no? Someone at Valencia should point a camera at MM’s pit board for the entire race…
Watching the first few laps of Sepang, I was really stunned that MM was doing exactly what Rossi had accused him of. I think it was smart of Rossi to bring it up in the press conference….
VEDDY INTRRESTING
Dammn it, that was supposed to be a reply to the OP
Well… I’ve been involved in various forms of racing for over 40 years, and I’ve found that things like pit boards, stopwatches, and body language (on a motorcycle) don’t lie.
It’s entirely possibly that there is more to the story of course… an overheating front tire (as Marquez eluded to), or even other things we can’t see.
But… if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck… the odds are pretty good it’s a duck. (grin). In other words, the odds are quite high that Marquez was doing *exactly* what Rossi accused him of at Phillip Island. It really didn’t take long to put lap charts, a pit board and some video together to come to that conclusion (admittedly: *my* conclusion). Rossi had a perfect view of all this happening, so he had an even better view of what was actually going on.
My personal opinion is that if Rossi wanted to address this, he might have been better off to just go to Race Direction and point it out.
Your pit board analysis seems silly. First, the intervals that are usually hastily put on pit boards are not accurate enough to tell if the +1 was meant for Maniac Joe in 3rd place, or for VR in 4th. Second, it implies MM’s crew was participating in MM’s master plan to harm Rossi. Third, if you are using the MotoGP video pass version of the race, the location of Rossi relative to MM is not shown for about 39 seconds prior and 13 seconds after we see the pit board. So how would Dave M. measure with a stop watch the time interval that you say is the basis for the +1 on the pit board? Fourth, “L8” means 8 laps to go, not 9. Fifth, when that pit board was displayed, MotoGP’s charts show Maniac Joe 0.94 behind MM, with VR 1.19 behind MM (JL 0.38 behind MM). So if your +1 meant time measured in seconds, it referred to Maniac. Sixth, perhaps +1 meant “you’re doin’ so good Marc, we’re gonna celebrate and put 1 extra polvoron in the oven for you”. Seventh, if +1 with 8 laps to go is sinister pit board communications, what do you say about this MM board at 19 laps to go:
+.2
Rossi
4
Rossi at that point was 0.29 behind MM. JL was 1.2 ahead of MM. Maniac was 0.4 behind VR.
Rossi’s legacy is far more important than this year’s championship. Whether he wins this year’s title or not, he has done definite harm to the legacy of his career. Regardless of Marquez’s actions, Rossi was wrong to react the way that he did. I have been rooting for the old man all season long, but now I have to hope that Lorenzo wins the title this year.
You Rossi blinded fans crack me up with your non-reality based views on history….BWAHAHAHA
http://captiongenerator.com/66188/Hitler-upset-at-Rossis-punishment
“Screw the Spanish, I’ll invade them next!”
Lol
Thanks, this made my day!
at least someone sees some humor in this
That was funny and well done!
The FIM Race Direction found that Mr Rossi deliberately ran wide in order to force the other rider off line, resulting in contact causing the other rider to crash out of the race.
Rossi deliberately running wide was NOT the cause of the contact. Marquez had enough space to be able to avoid any contact.
Marquez deliberately turning into Rossi WAS the cause of the contact. That contact resulted in Marquez crashing.
FIM Race Direction should get their facts straight. After all, clear evidence of Marquez deliberately turning into Rossi when he had absolutely no need to is all there on videos from various angles. You can’t possibly miss it, unless you’re blind, stupid or both.
What if you’re just constipated?
🙂
Marquez broke one of the most sacred rules of motor racing: Never get involved in somebody else’s title fight. I’m neutral in this matter but watching the replays it is quite clear that Marquez was trying to make Rossi crash – in an obvious attempt to get back at Rossi for the humiliation he caused young Marquez in Argentina and at Assen. Rossi did the right thing at Sapang, because such was the level of aggression shown by Marquez towards Rossi that it would have ended with very serious injuries to one or both of them…or even worse. But also, I don’t think Rossi took Marquez out. On the contrary, the video evidence clearly suggests that Rossi only tried to warn Marquez off and push him off line (which is allowed within the rules). However, Marquez saw red and tried to barge his way past Rossi, ramming his helmet and then shoulder into Rossi’s knee – Rossi was looking away at that moment – feeling the contact on his knee Rossi pushed back and right then Marquez’s front-end folded.
It’s a shame Marquez had to ride like that and spoil Rossi’s championship, in Melbourne too, because it shows off a horrible two-faced low-life character. If Rossi had not removed Marquez’s mask in Thursdays press conference Marquez would have carried out his personal vendetta like a snake in the grass and nobody would have been the wiser – that’s from where the lowest human beings operate. You can’t sink any lower.
“Marquez broke one of the most sacred rules of motor racing:”
Sacred but unwritten.
Especially while racing for a podium position.
MM was in 2nd place, then he apparently slows to allow JL to pass him, then for several laps MM is in a death battle for 3rd with VR. When VR slows, MM could have avoided VR altogether and simply taken the inside line R of VR, and passed VR. But no, MM slows even more, head butts VR’s L knee, resulting in VR lifting his L knee, followed by MM crashing.
In the Malaysia GP MM had sum total zero interest in any podium anywhere.
If you are right, MM must be pretty pissed about something.
According to various reports, Marquez was definitely pissed. Supposedly he blames Rossi for the Argentina crash and also for the Assen incident, which Marquez feels cost him the championship.
Typical Marquez, blaming someone else for incidents in which he was clearly the wrongdoer.
Well Said!
VLJ is correct. MM tried to bash Rossi out of the way just as he had made a habit of doing in Moto2. Apparently, he has not respect for other riders. It is equally apparent that the FIM treats riders unfairly from time to time. This is one of those times.
My understanding was that there is video from the helicopter that verified VR did not kick.
Yes. Most of us have had the doctor softly hit our knee with a small rubber mallet while we sat with our lower leg handing, followed by our knee involuntarily extending our lower leg.
MM intentionally head butts VR’s L knee while VR was not looking (VR was looking 1-2 seconds prior), followed by VR’s L knee involuntarily lifting from its rest position against the fuel tank.
MM should be banned from the last race, penalty points assessed for next season, and VR should qualify for his best pole position.
In my mind VR did nothing wrong when he slowed and looked back, because slowing was the only way he could get away from MM’s intentional disruption.
Because VR was too slow to just ride away? Is that what you are saying?
Provologna’s makin’ balogna today! Hilarious!
Yes, Dirck, Rossi was too slow to ride away. Marquez had much more speed in reserve, but he was not interested in using it to stay with JL and DP.
I’ve heard it suggested that Marquez was somehow “struggling” with setup/tires, whatever, despite being fastest in the morning warmup. So let’s ask this:
IF he were really struggling to keeep pace, why didn’t he just use Rossi as a tow to catch up with the leaders, and save the dicing and scrapping until the last couple of laps? What possible purpose did it serve making repeated desperation passes, only to slow on corner exit time and time again. Any racer from amateur club level knows that isn’t the quick way around a track, and given the gap to the front, speed was of the essence.
You can be certain Rossi wanted nothing more than to catch up to the leaders as quickly as possible, and there’s no way he would have intentionally gotten into a dog fight with Marquez. That was MM’s game plan from the start, and it couldn’t have been more obvious.
I still find it hard to believe MM would disregard his obligation to Honda and his sponsers by deliberately slowing down (and finishing lower in the race standings)just to mess with Rossi. Not saying it didn’t happen, but at this level (MotoGP), there is always big $ at stake. Just making the podium generates sponser bonuses, for instance.
I think MM feels that Repsol and Honda need him more than he needs them. He may or may not be correct about that, but I believe it’s his perception right now that he can do whatever he wants and hey, what are they gonna do?
Yes, no one’s denying that today, Marquez is the faster rider than Rossi. But Rossi is leading the championship, and Marquez is not even in contention, by a wide margin, because Marquez has crashed out and DNF’d in multiple races prior to Sepang. Also, Rossi is the better rider in the rain. So, although Rossi wasn’t able to simply ride away from Marc and avoid the harassment, that doesn’t mean it’s okay for Marc to screw around with him and try to prevent him from closing the gap to Lorenzo. A rider who ALSO trails Rossi, even though TODAY Lorenzo might be a tad quicker. That’s not the point of an entire season’s championship race (18 races!).
lol Oh come on. The doctor (and we are not talking about rossi here) hits you in a very small specific spot in the front of your knee when checking reflexes. This area would be covered by a hard cup in Rossi’s racing leathers. Marquez made contact on the side. No way was Rossi’s movement an “involuntary reflex”.
as far as getting away from MM’s intentional disruption, why not just ride faster than Marquez?
I don’t think VR could ride faster than MM. That does not mean it was within the spirit of the letter of race rules for MM to be riding back and forth with Rossi for several laps. MM could apparently not ride away from Rossi either (at least he made it look like that, which I personally feel 100% was pure unadulterated BS…MM was willing to risk crashing in order to cause MM to loose the Championship).
But let’s suppose MM really could not pass VR and make it stick (pull away). As someone else states immediately above, MM”s best action is to simply ride in VR’s slipstream, till he either could pass and pull away from VR or, till MM and VR together caught up to #2 and #1 (respectively JL and DP). Then the four of them battle for the win, as they did the prior race.
MM is about 90% to blame, Rossi 10% max, maybe more like 100/0.
All of you please read the article, nails it pretty darn good. http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/2015/10/article/motogp-outsider-sepangclash-rossis-lowest-point/
Rossi needs to stop this nonsense right now before he ruins this sport.
That article was garbage. Straight up. It was so biased, it easily could have been written by the boffins at Repsol.
VLJ’s man card just gained VIP status! 🙂
Garbage? I think not. As a Rossi fan myself his behavior and actions are totally unprofessional.He needs to apologize to his fellow riders,Motogp fans,and most importantly Marc Marquez. Sadly,I see at this point that this will not happen.
Yes, garbage.
“Rossi finds himself leading the World Championship, but everyone knows this is an artificial position.”
Artificial? And everyone knows this? Really? Four wins? Podiums in all but two races? Leading the series from the very first race to the present?
“Artificial,” my ass. Math doesn’t lie. Rossi has been consistently faster than everyone else over the course of the entire season. Nothing artificial about that.
“Marquez was not riding to hold back Rossi for Lorenzo’s advantage: his only interest was in beating, humiliating, humbling and making it clear that Rossi is no longer the pack leader. His day is over – gone and never to return.”
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t Rossi still leading the championship, and didn’t he out-qualify Jorge in Sepang? To say his day is over even though he still may wrap up the world title in Valencia is not only premature—it’s not as if the moto press hasn’t written #46 off before, only to made to eat crow—it’s downright stupid.
Check the points standings. Rossi is well ahead of the very guy the author is lionizing. Valentino also has just as many wins as Marquez.
“Marc could have easily been badly injured – or worse – and this would have been a direct consequence of the unforgiveable act of gratuitous violence carried out by Rossi.”
Utter Chicken Little, hand-wavy nonsense. “Gratuitous violence”? By the guy who got hit? Marquez’s very slow-speed crash was the direct result of only one thing: Marquez’s typically reckless decision to run into Rossi. Don’t want to crash? Don’t run into other riders from behind, over and over and over.
Just a garbage article. Very unprofessional.
When you watch the previous races, you can completely see how Rossi has to deal with the help Marquez does for Lorenzo. Then with multiple views you can see there is a blind spot. The view from above you can see there is no way he could have pushed a combined 450lb bike and rider down with a tap. Instead of an epic championship, we have to see the title handed to Jorge, with the help of his friend Marquez. Front row, down to the wire, man to man. The riders who don’t have a chance, stay out of the way! Then you will see who is the champion. # penalty points for a tap, at best no way!
Well said VLJ.
Digg.
A complete joke. Looks like the commentary over there is setting him straight, though. Wonder what he was smoking when he wrote that tripe…
[^This was supposed to be under Tim’s link to a MotoUSA article. Weird.]
Wow, written like someone who had his nuts clipped at an early age. Put on an f’n skirt Nancy. For someone who claims to admire Rossi’s intellect he sure fools me. Yeah Rossi isn’t the dominant force he used to be, but he is fast enough to have held on to the championship this late in the season, in the most prestigious motorcycle road racing class in the world. But I guess that means ziltch to the Caitlyn Jenner types. 🙂
The article you have linked is by far the worst written on the subject. Full of bias and disdain. Melling is famous for his incessant wingeing. Bad example. Lots of better examples out there.
Rossi is the sport
Hope MM gets what he really deserves, it’s only a matter of time, he’s fast but really Reckless! This last race will be very interesting, JL with all the pressure may just choke.
What does MM deserve? A reckless Simoncelli died. He didn’t deserve that. What are you wishing on MM? Too much hating on this site.
I’m not really wishing anything on MM, it will be his own doing….
I just really wish he had integrity, he continues to cause issues and then denies and lies…
Ya’ll need to find something to do, fan reaction is more embarrassing than the actions of Rossi or Marquez. We need to discuss the car that Yamaha showed in Tokyo.
I see a race maneuver better known as “closing the door”. Where’s the foul ?
The door is usually somewhere near the racing line
Marc abandoned the racing line entirely on his own. He ran crazily wide while still trailing Rossi. Valentino didn’t make him go there, but once Marc chose to drift so far off the racing line Valentino did follow him out there to block him.
Cutting out the fiction and the hyperbole, we’re left with “Valentino did follow him out there to block him”. Good start. And then did Rossi block him? And did MM go down? And if Rossi had raced instead of interfered (he did interfere, right?), would MM be on the ground? And what does the rule book say about this collection of facts? And you expect a lesser slap on the wrist for this?
Re: “Marc abandoned the racing line entirely on his own. ”
He did not. He entered the turn on the same line they entered every lap (the tightest part of the turn is just after the point where Rossi oits him down). He then remained wide when he saw Rossi inside of him, looking at him instead of his own race line.
More slow-mo footage, showing Rossi’s knee-puck nowhere near MM’s handlebar and his foot deliberately kicking Marquez’s bar away. The kick is clearly what caused MM to go down. He was completely in control prior to it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgIWJeJbNHw
FYI, that link goes to the Argentina race.
Marquez absolutely went wide on his own, well before Rossi. Every video shows Marquez inexplicably running a mile wide and slowing down, with Rossi following suit to block. Had Marquez maintained a normal racing line he easily would have slipped beneath Rossi when Valentino eventually went wide, except Rossi wouldn’t have been out there in the first place if Marc hadn’t already drifted out there.
Had Marquez been racing to win rather than merely trying to antagonize Rossi he would have gleefully accepted the opening offered him by the slowing Rossi. Instead, he stayed out there and simply ran into Rossi.
It was all very much unlike the conspicuous kid-gloves treatment he afforded Lorenzo, when he made zero effort to fight back after dutifully clearing out of Jorge’s way. Marquez always fights right back whenever he’s passed. Always, straight away. No delay. He’s hardwired to do so. It’s all he knows. It’s instinctive with this guy. Here, however, nope, he simply curtsied for Lorenzo and set his sights on his true target, Rossi.
If the appeal is successful it will be good for the sport. JL will still likely win the championship but it will be legit vs. parenthetical…….he may be able to salvage his image as well.
If VR is allowed to qualify as normal, Valencia is going to be an awesome event!
The championship, an entire season of racing, should not be decided by a very controversial penalty. Even Lorenzo should prefer to beat VR in a fair fight vs. an “asterisk” championship that comes out of a decision and not the track.
Oh, but he doesn’t! Lorenzo made it quite clear that he would like nothing better than to be handed the trophy due to a Rossi penalty. Fine example of sportsmanship right there…
I think you’re wrong about JL. Just like Rossi has made some bad decisions in the heat of the championship, so has Jorge. I think Lorenzo knows he’s usually faster than Rossi, is frustrated that a couple turns of bad luck have come his way this year, wants the championship very badly, and recognized Rossi’s action at Sepang for what it was and what FIM ruled it was. He’s a bit of a weird dude, and has done some strange things and whining this season, but he’s a friggin’ alien, maybe more so than the others because of his unearthly smooth, consistent racing skills. Let’s see what he says when Sport Court lets Rossi start from his qualifying position.
Did you read David Emmett’s piece on MotoMatters? If not, go here…
https://m.motomatters.com/analysis/2015/10/27/2015_sepang_motogp_round_up_heroes_who_h.html
…and scroll down to the subtitle “Et tu, Brute”. It paints a side of JL that I can’t even believe…
I read that earlier in the week. It’s called one man’s opinion and interpretation. I’ve never read him before, but what a blowhard Emmett is: “Márquez was taken entirely by surprise by the behavior of the Italian. Forced off line and out, he kept trying to make a judgment as to when Rossi would turn in for Turn 14. He judged it wrong just as Rossi pushed him wide even further, and Márquez leaned in as Rossi moved out, the pair colliding. Márquez helmet collided with Rossi’s kneeslider, knocking his leg off the peg, which collided with his handlebars.” Hell, this Emmett guy was there, between the bikes, and in their minds! He’ll surely be called before the court in Switzerland!
I’ll grant you Emmett takes a few liberties with what he perceives to be going through the riders’ minds throughout this race, but then we’ve all been doing the same thing all week.
Nobody can really know what each rider was thinking beside the two involved, but I formed my opinion based upon my experience on race tracks and from watching racing since the early 80’s. I am quite certain in my view that Marquez was not racing to win, but racing to interfere with Rossi, and that goes against the entire essence of racing.
In any case, we were talking about Lorenzo, and maybe Emmett projected a couple of his own thoughts in the article, but some of the lines were direct quotes from JL (which would have quickly refuted had they been false), and just from that I am deeply disappointed in JL’s approach.
He could have taken the high road, but he came off at the very least petty, and if taken to its extreme, you could see the possibility of collusion between him and MM. I truly hope this isn’t the case…
Emmett makes no mention of JL giving the thumbs down to Rossi on the podium as the reason why the fans booed JL. Throws a lot of doubt on his credibility…
Good thing video footage is more accurate than eye witnesses eh? I don’t think I’ve seen 20 seconds of video tape viewed so many times, by so many, who see entirely different things, with both sides saying ” it’s perfectly clear if you watch the film, since the Zupruder film
btw there is a video from Marquez’s tail camera that shows it from between the bikes at footpeg level. I know it exists because there is a still from it over on motogp.com under the title “crash analysis why and where the riders fell” (on left hand side of page when I looked last). That’s the video I’d like to see. Wonder who owns that footage taken from the riders bike cams?
Dorna owns it. There was video from the tails of Rossi’s and Marquez’s bikes, but they are no longer available from the site. Maybe they’ll make it available after the appeals process is complete. Or maybe not.
For anyone who thinks “eye witness” testimony is necessarily valid, do some research on how absolutely wrong and worthless is eye witness testimony.
Watch the movie “Twelve Angry Men” if you want to see some of the world’s best acting covering the subject. Salem witch trials, any one? At the Salem Witch Trials, proclaiming innocence was entered as proof of guilt!
Jacksonk has a good point: They really should have FIFA investigate this one! After all, the MARQUEZ FLOP rivals anything I’ve ever seen in a soccer game!
Besides that FIFA is so corrupt they won’t have any problem overturning the penalty!!!
My guess is motogp has the fix in – they’ll take guff either way – but less if Rossi is not penalized for this race.
I hope MD gets a bump in ad rates from the traffic on these posts
This is the best footage of the “kick”, or “foot slipped off the peg”, I have found. Rossi is protesting he didn’t run Marquez off the track, nor kick at him. Here, he runs him wide, pins him against the outer edge of the track, and jams his foot on whatever was nearest. https://www.facebook.com/tonzy.genova/videos/1648877598700966/?hc_location=ufi
No way this is the best footage, you can hardly tell what’s going on. Other angle previously posted clearly shows MM headbutting his leg (or, accelerating/turning his bike into VR and it just so happens his head is there first). I definitely am on the side that at the particular moment of impact VR’s reaction was more like “WTF get offa me” than anything like a deliberate premeditated kick at MM, his controls, etc.
You are kidding, right? That’s the best angle that proves Rossi’s foot never moved a millimeter until Marquez ran over him! Thanks for confirming that, once again.
The video I am speaking of also clearly shows this. Not sure where it’s gone or if it’s still available; I’d have to dig thru the comments of the previous post and that ain’t happening
key words are, “I have found”. with no video links from either of you, your comments are mute.
Umm… The word you’re looking for is “moot”, and what video links are you talking about? You already provided one that difinitively shows no kick. What else do you want to see?
*Definitively. Typo.
Our comments are not mute THEY ARE VERY VERY NOISY (say that in Vivian from “The Young Ones” voice)
All I can think of is 2006 partially based on this interesting view from J. Burgess, and the remembrance that he’s never won a championship with less than a 45 point margin. Fortunately it’s not my responsibility to judge this mess. I’ll just wait patiently for SBK to start up. Go PJ:
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2015/Oct/151027burgessonrossi.htm
I can’t imagine that this is not the joint idea of Rossi, Dorna, and maybe FIM. With that powerful trinity, you think Rossi will not be qualifying as usual at Valencia? I’ll take that bet. Via either a stay or penalty reduction everybody but Lorenzo wins. Marquez likely gets implicated in the court’s decision, but I don’t see that changing anybody’s opinion of him. Dorna/MotoGP can say we just ruled by our rule book but gets told it was too harsh considering the stakes and MM’s aggressiveness, and Dorna/MotoGP gets their fans back and the cloud removed. FIM supported Dorna’s rule book and decried un-sportsmen like conduct, which the court will agree with while staying or reducing the penalty.
Now that this is settled and we can look forward to Valencia, has this question been covered here: In Argentina, did Rossi purposely take Marquez down? At the time I didn’t pay that much attention to it but now it seems 50/50, or even likely. Are there multiple cameras views on that one?
If he wins this appeal, he should go ahead and appeal about 6 of Giacomo’s world titles. See where I’m headed with this?????
The Rossi/Dorna/FIM trio only had 5 days to appeal to the Sport Court. They knew that before the checkers flew at Sepang, and have been enjoying the past 5 days of hype and free publicity, knowing the Sport Court would fix everything in time for Valencia. Who knows the rule book better that trio?
I don’t think in Argentina Rossi took Marc out on purpose. It’s a quick change of direction, Marc was behind. End of story.
Isn’t it ironic that every time there’s a crash involving Marquez and another rider, Marquez is ALWAYS the trailing rider. Yet, he always seems to blame the guy in front of him!
oooooooooooooooooooooooo, very intereseting……..
So if Vale’s appeal is successful or he gets a stay, can MM appeal that decision? Can he appeal Argentina’s “racing incident” ruling? If not, why not? All of this is after the fact and after the governing body has made their ruling. If Vale loses, can he appeal to the Pope? The Mafia? FIFA? The FIA? The UN? Where does this made for TV drama stop? Why would it make sense to issue a stay of execution until NEXT season when the penalty occurred THIS season? Because Rossi fans want it that way? Hell, if I was Sete I would file my own appeal. Maybe Casey can get in on the act. Can we go back a few seasons and appeal penalty points and determine a new finishing order for controversial races/rulings? Can Harada appeal against Capirossi? This sounds like fun, how do I get in on the appeal act?????
brilliantly put…. !!!
I take back my previous sentiments. Like many others I’ve researched the footage time and again and am mostly convinced that Maquez became furious with Rossi and tipped in for a head butt and lost the front of his machine.
Of course that any of the incident happened at all is at least partly Rossi’s fault but had Marquez not reacted as he did they both would have continued the race with both riders incurring only a slight delay in place and Marquez understanding Rossi’s message clearly: leave me alone.
I’m all for the championship being decided by the final race soley; what I worry about is MM pulling the same Stunt again. What a soap opera, but hopefully it comes down to racing and not childish behavior.
Yeah, I basically stand by what I’ve said previously – that regardless of what led up to it, VR simply should have ridden off (or been able to) or at least maintained the high ground in the conflict. But given the context of the situation, what I haven’t commented on is the actual penalty, which I initially thought fair but which I would now consider to be draconian. This development – should it work – is actually welcome as regardless of who was childish and/or unsporting and/or etc, it’s not a situation that warrants DQing someone from any real possibility of the championship.
I agree, Marquez leaned in, then fell off. If he’d ‘out-waited’ Rossi he never would have fallen off. Neither would have caught the leading pair, so that wasn’t a consideration.
For Marquez to act indignant is quite hypocritical, he’s come close to ending peoples careers in Moto2, several times. The whole reason why a penalty points system exists is _because_ of Marquez.
Compare Rossi’s actions to what Marques did to Luthi in Quatar(I think) in Moto2, where he put him off the tarmac at high speed, and it looks downright pedestrian.
Rossi screwed up, no doubt about it, but they were going so slow, there was really not much risk, relatively speaking.
I thought Rossis actions were out of character for him, but I sympathize with his frustration with Marquez. I want him to win what will probably be his last championship and their ruling would hand it to Lorenzo on a silver platter. The likelihood that he would win or even podium from the back of the grid isn’t very likely. I hope his strategy works. Next years Quatar would be a better solution. I wish Marquez would get some kind of penalty for his harassment, that’s all his race was while it lasted.
Although Marquez is guilty of purposely speeding up and then slowing down just to mess with Rossi, I believe he has been punished enough by losing out on any points in Malaysia when he crashed. No need to assign any penalty points, although there is certainly a good case that 1 or 2 are warranted. But at this point, the only thing that matters is the race for the championship, and Marquez is not a contender.
Here’s where it’s going to get REALLY interesting. Assuming Mr. Rossi (love that) has his appeal granted, or is given a “stay of execution” until Qatar next year, he starts where he qualifies in Valencia. With a 7 point advantage over Lorenzo, if Lorenzo takes the win, then Rossi will still win the championship if he places second. BUT if Marquez finishes 2nd, with Rossi in third, game over, Rossi will lose the championship by 2 points (up by 7 to start, 9 points lost if it finishes with Lorenzo in 1st, Rossi in 3rd). What a battle it would then be for 3rd between Rossi and Marquez. Oh, and if Pedrosa has another strong ride and HE takes the win, with Lorenzo taking 2nd, then Rossi needs to come in no lower than 3rd. (If the finishing order is Pedrosa-Lorenzo-Marquez-Rossi, Lorenzo and Rossi will tie on total points, but Lorenzo wins the championship with more race wins). Either way, it’s shaping up to be an epic battle between Rossi and Marquez. Hope Marquez races to win, and not to screw with Rossi.
I watched the first part of the race again, and the few laps before MM went down, it was not the ‘epic battle we had been waiting for’ as the announced declared. It seemed like it at the time, but watch some of MM passes, and it seems quite reasonable he should have been able to hang with the leaders, instead of dogging around Rossi. He could not have been having grip issues, then get some good corners, then have trouble again… after a few laps, Rossi decoded to have a good look at him, and just took it a bit too far by running him down. Kicked, or just fell over, it would not have happened if Marquez would have simply raced his own race.
put the blame at 50/50 but he is the Spanish Golden child..
Just or not, I wouldn’t be upset by this outcome for the sake of the last race.
As a young kid on my Grandpa’s cattle ranch, I was taught not to step in the cow pie, but over it. Moto GP has Rossi pie all over it. Nary a word twas heard about JLo dicing thru traffic to get near the front, nor Dani’s perfect ride at the front.
Hail the Pie Thrower, some people will swallow anything.
After initially thinking it was all Rossi’s fault, a dozen rewatchings of the incident convinced me that Marquez was 50% responsible. He initiated contact with Rossi, I can’t tell whether Rossi kicked or his leg was knocked off the peg, but if I’m on a track and someone is pressing into my body in a corner, I’m probably going to try to push him off. It appears Marquez was already going down when the “kick” occurred, but not positive of that either. Regardless deciding the championship over penalty points is BS, it ruins a great season.
Agree 100%.
I completely agree too.
I’m with you there. Wish none of this had happened, but my opinion of the penalty incident has definitely shifted in Rossi’s favor after lots of reading and watching.
No matter what comes of this appeal, all of them have to race each other in Spain. If Pedrosa or MM93 get out front, no issue till Rossi gets within a few positions of 99. Points earned for 3rd on down is smaller so there would be no need to go head to head. Rossi could win the championship from a few positions down then.
If 99 gets out front and somehow VR46 catches up to MM93, de ja vu…
Joe B,
There was no kick. Watch the footage again. Marquez was already going down and he pulled Rossi’s foot of the peg. Rossi’s leg goes out behind him. Who kicks like that????
Anyone who would try to kick another motorcycle while leaned over, exiting the corner even at 1/3 the speed, would be a complete idiot. It wouldn’t work.
We’ve all seen the footage. Those looking at it objectively all see the same thing- Rossi lining up, and kicking Marquez’s handlebar, then looking back to be sure he was successful in putting Maq down.
That said, brilliant move on Rossi’s part as the biggest immediate loss in this mess would’ve been ending the championship with little to no chance of fighting for it from the back row on the grid. I hope he gets his shot and this matter is taken up after the title is decided.
“Those looking at it objectively all see the same thing- Rossi lining up, and kicking Marquez’s handlebar, then looking back to be sure he was successful in putting Maq down.”
This is an absolute falsehood. You are one of the VERY few who still thinks that’s what happened. After reading literally hundreds of posts, and dozens of blog articles, nearly everyone – including the Race Director – agrees there was no such kick.
I’m still waiting to see the magical mystery video shot of that happening…
Weather he kicked or not does not matter. He was penalised for “deliberately running wide and forcing another rider off line resulting in contact and causing another rider to crash out of the race”. FIM don’t mention the kick. Even looking at the incident through Rossi coloured glasses it’s hard to not come to the conclusion that the FIM did.
No way Rossi caused the crash, not when Marquez easily could have avoided a collision and simply chose not to. There was nothing stopping Marquez from pulling up, braking and turning, continuing on, or even running off the track to safety. Any of those options would have worked. Instead, he chose the only option that could lead to a crash: leaning directly into Rossi’s bike.
And there was no kick by Rossi to Marquez’s handlebar. Almost alone in the woods now, baying at the moon, Dave continues to make that ridiculous claim.
re: “I’m still waiting to see the magical mystery video shot of that happening…”
Why wait? They all clearly show it happening, even the one that’s most available, from the blind side of the action. On youtube, most of the footage is titled some version of “Rossi kicks Marquez”, so clearly I’m not alone in my conclusion.
As I’ve said before, I’m a Rossi fan, not a hater. If you’ve decided what to see despite what the footage clearly shows then there’s no point in wasting more time trying to convince you.
On to Valencia..
Sic em’ Dave! Shake em’ like a dog shakes a rat!
That’s foolish. All of the videos clearly show MM at fault. Clearly. Everyone agrees. See how easy that is?
I don’t see proof of a deliberate kick. I do see Rossi corralling Marquez and running him out to edge of the track. That alone was the sanctionable action. Even his team has said it was wrong.
MM was behind VR. Who or what stopped MM from going to VR’s R, inside the approaching R hand turn? I’ll tell you what! Nothing except the fact that MM pre-planned to stay to VR’s L, then MM faked “leaning” to the R for the approaching turn, then MM bent his head intentionally into VR’s L knee (a convenient target), then VR’s L knee involuntarily pushes away from the fuel tank against the offending MM head.
And when I say offending MM head, I mean this literally and figuratively.
It’s a shame you can’t truly see it objectively. I saw a video of the incident from the front. In fact, I sent the link to my friend.
From that camera angle, it is indisputable that Marquez dove head first into Rossi’s leg and crashed while doing it.
Unfortunately, the link now says “This video contains content from Dorna Sports, who has blocked it on copyright grounds.”
Cover-up? You make the call.
Yeah I wasn’t smart enough to KeepVid stuff as it got posted….
Both riders played a part in this… Rossi’s retaliation is what got flagged so it’s like a penalty in football, not always fair. But both should have been given the same or just fined and then move on. To decide the championship is wrong in my opinion over something like this… I would not call what Rossi did at the low speed a dangerous move… in fact some of Marquez’s moves could have been considered more dangerous.
That said, he’s fighting with all his might good on him. I still think Lorenzo will win without weather or marquez taking out Lorenzo to show they are not true friends or something, but let the racers race for the love…
on the other hand… FIM President Vito Ippolito, his response was crap. He sounds like a whiny little kid on the playground. Really? Damaged forever? IDIOT.
You had two racers taking their fight to the track as they are passionate and simply need to be reminded that it stays off track. BIG overreaction in my eyes.
The FIM President has already said “Riders, teams, manufacturers and sponsors should not only respect the rules but they should accept the decisions of the officials, whatever they may be.”
Everything that Rossi has done since last Thursday stinks of desperation.
John Wilkes Booth shot President Lincoln, jumped in his escape, and hurt his leg. Dr. Samuel Mudd, having no knowledge of the assassination (his internet was down), treated Booth’s leg. The crowd searching for Booth wrongly and illegally hanged Mudd as an accomplice in Booth’s escape. Mudd’s name was not officially cleared till President Carter publicly apologized for the error.
That’s the source for the euphemism, “His name is mud (Mudd).” We should start a new one, “His name is Marquez.”
Brilliant move! That would be wonderful, even if they just agree to a “stay of execution” (how apropos). Start from the back of the Qatar grid next year… perfect solution ! I’m rooting for you, Mr. Rossi.
And retire after winning the championship this season, riding off into the sunset while punting the Qatar penalty into the weeds.
No fiction could approach this for pure depth of passion.
Regardless who is awarded the Crown this year, in my mind Rossi owns it forever. Conversely, MM’s name is mud till he publicly apologizes for his awful and intentional race retribution for VR’s rightful and accurate claims of MM’s intent to bar Rossi from winning the Crown.
+1
+2
How funny would it be if Jorge doesn’t have the championship handed to him on a silver platter at the final round, as he’d hoped, and instead has to earn it on the track in Valencia, and fails to do so.
Oooooh, the bitter recriminations, the sturm und drang, the dainty Spanish panties all atwixt!
Bwaaaaa!
I feel bad for JL. If this appeal is successful, he may have to “take some risks” and “put himself in danger” in order to “win” the championship. Such a shame…
Think he’ll give another thumbs-down gesture on the podium if Rossi ends up winning the title?
:chuckle:
“To remind our readers of the context…”
Somehow I doubt that will be necessary.
🙂
He was kicking, now he’s waving his arms, and crying…
No, he’s fighting fire with fire, which I think is brilliant in this case. It may not matter in the long run, but IMHO it is worth a shot. At first I thought he was just juicing up Marc and Jorge in the pres conference in regards to what happened at PI. But I like many others went back and reviewed the race, it made me think there was some merit to what he was saying, even thought it still sounded far fetched. We all know what happened in Sepang, and even Stevie Wonder could see that Rossi didn’t intentionally wreck Marquez. So again, I applaud his efforts and hope that he either gets a decision in his favor, or a stay. That way he can battle it out for the championship and end this already great season with a bang!
From the video, it doesn’t look like a kick at all. Rossi’s version of events seems the correct one to me. But, hey, haters gonna hate I suppose.
I agree slow motion replay seems to show Marquez’s helmet hitting Rossi’s knee, knocking his foot off the peg….no kick.
What I see is one rider committing to the curve – ie turning (that would be MM) – and one guy inexplicably standing his bike up – ie going straight (that would be the guy who isn’t MM). Now, if his foot hadn’t come off the peg. it would be a fairly clever dirty move that causes a crash out. His foot does come off the peg – resulting in the current debate. But, peg – no peg – he caused the crash.
Nope. MM caused the crash by leaning into Rossi and colliding with him rather than taking any of the numerous (and quite easy) evasive maneuvers available to him.