Dani Pedrosa (Honda) dominated the Sepang MotoGP race earlier today. From pole position, Pedrosa rode to a convincing win over second-place Jorge Lorenzo(Yamaha). The real drama, however, occurred behind the two riders.
Fighting over 3rd place, Valentino Rossi and Marc Marquez came together with Marquez crashing out. Many race observers believe Rossi deliberately pushed Marquez wide, and then lifted his foot from his peg nearest Marquez and pushed Marquez causing him to crash. You can see a video of the incident here: http://www.snappytv.com/tc/943691/327278.
Race Direction investigated the situation, including review of all available video of the incident and interviews of the riders involved, and concluded that Rossi was at fault. Rossi was therefor given 3 penalty points, which will result in Rossi starting from the back of the grid at Valencia, the final race of the year.
The Sepang race results stand, however, so Rossi will keep his points for third place. This means Rossi enters the final race with a seven-point advantage over his Yamaha teammate Jorge Lorenzo. This article will be updated with more details later today.
Here are post-race quotes from both Rossi and Marquez:
Valentino Rossi
3rd / +13.724 / 20 laps
“Marquez knows it wasn’t red mist that caused the incident. It’s very clear from the helicopter footage that I didn’t want to make him crash, I just wanted to make him lose time, go outside of the line and slow down, because he was playing his dirty game, even worse than in Australia. When I went wide and slowed down to nearly a stop, I looked at him as if to say ‘what are you doing?’. After that we touched. He touched with his right underarm on my leg and my foot slipped off the foot peg. If you look at the image from the helicopter it’s clear that when my foot slipped of the foot peg, Marquez had already crashed. I didn’t want to kick him, especially because, if you give a kick to a MotoGP bike, it won’t crash, it’s very heavy. For me the sanction is not fair, because Marquez won his fight. His program is OK because he is making me lose the championship. The sanction is not good, especially for me, because I didn’t purposefully want to make him crash, I just reacted to his behaviour, but I didn’t kick him. You can’t say anything in the press conference, maybe it changes something, but to me this was not fair, because I just want to fight for the championship with Jorge and let the better man win, but like this that’s not happening. Like I said, I didn’t want to make Marquez crash, but I had to do something because at that moment Jorge was already gone. The championship is not over yet, but this sanction cut me off by the legs and made Marquez win.”
Marc Marquez
DNF
“We were having a good race up until the incident. At the beginning I made a mistake, but then I regained confidence. Valentino overtook me, I followed him for half a lap, and I saw that I could go faster than him, so I tried to overtake him back. We started a fight between us and I always passed without making any contact with him. At Turn 14 he passed me on the inside, I sat the bike up, he kept going straight ahead and I saw him looking at me. I didn’t know what to do. Then he kicked out at me, knocking my brake lever, and I crashed. I will leave the sanction in the hands of Race Direction. All I know is that I scored zero points and ended up in the gravel, but thankfully I’m fine. Both what Valentino said to Race Direction and what he did on the track has made me disappointed. I’ve never seen anything like it: a rider kicking another rider. It might be down to nerves, but I want to try to forget about all this and the important thing is that I’m fine physically. I hope, for the sake of the sport that this ends here.”
See more of MD’s great photography:
Finally M Rossi got punished by the court in Lausanne. Now everybody should understand that he was totally wrong. Also after Rossi will stop there will be other drivers. Don’t worry we do not need persons like Rossi in the Moto GP. It wasn’t the first person he brought in big danger.
Just imagine MotoGP without Rossi ….. its like MotoGP without the ‘Moto’ or the ‘GP’ !!!!!
what are the chances he comes back after “losing” this championship….
Me thinks Dorna is going to have to do something about the paint swapping aspect of this sport…i wouldn’t be surprised if they install proximity sensors in the bikes which limit the throttle…meh
The series will suffer without Rossi. He is the universally liked and cheered for rider in the series. The other guys have their fans too, except most are in their own home countries or small pockets in other places.
Interest in the series was down when Rossi was out with a broken leg in 2010 and also during his stint with Ducati since he wasn’t running up front.
I know I’ll cancel my MotoGP pass when he retires as I don’t care about any of the other riders in the series (unless another American or more important to me a Texan comes along). I’ll treat MotoGP like I do pro tennis now. When I was growing up Andre Agassi was my guy but once he retired I didn’t pay as much attention to it. Rossi was just up and coming when I started to pay attention to motorcycle racing (he’s 2 years younger than I am) to the point that my first helmet I bought for my first new in 1997 EX500 Ninja was his first AGV helmet.
Dorna needs to understand that you don’t shoot your golden goose (or in Rossi’s case chicken) if they’re still producing for you.
Dorna didn’t shoot Rossi, but race control did let him off easy. Rossi let MM get to him. That is all.
Dorna let the fox pup(MM) get away with too much crap this season and the chicken finally had enough.
Rossi should have had his eyes and his bike to the inside of the turn as usual. In a prize fight, you can’t let the other guy, MM, into your head. That’s the bottom line. You can’t just slow down til your engine almost stalls when you know someone is on the outside of the turn, AND look back! Look into the turn. End of argument.
Look at this video. Freeze it at 16, then advance frame by frame up to frame 19. I think you can clearly see that Rossi was in charge of this situation. He guides Marquez further and further to the edge of the track to where Marquez tries to turn in before running out of track. Rossi has the angle on Marquez and does not relinquish that angle until after Marquez goes down, then you can see how hard Rossi has to lay it over to the right to remain on the track himself. Rossi was the aggressor in this and was by video evidence trying to run Marquez off the track. With the angle that Rossi was on, and with the track turning back sharply to the right, Marquez simply had no room to pass Rossi on the outside.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o_rRRGhhbE
Again you don’t have to believe this, but this is what Rossi said, this is what Jarvis said, this is what RD said, this is what the FIMs said. Not a single fellow racer has come to Rossi’s defense. Not 1 (that I have read).
I will also say that I believe Marquez should have received some discipline in this matter for messing with Rossi, but apparently what MM did to slow Rossi down was not against MGP rules, and what Rossi did, by forcibly steering MM off line was, hence the penalty.
I’m tired of discussing it and this is my last post on this subject. I will read everybody’s response to this post, but I will type no further.
Has anyone noticed that the runoff in that turn is a large expanse of ASPHALT? If MM was really “out of room”, why didn’t he just go around? At the speed they were going, it would have been a faster line! Rossi would have been signaled to give the position back to MM, and they would have been on their merry way.
But no, MM had NO CHOICE but to crash into Rossi! Please. You want to throw the word “delusional” around?! There you go.
You’ve all seen Marquez pull off some of the most amazing moves, yet he couldn’t manage to bail himself out of this one at 30 mph? Really?
I’m with you Mickey. Done. We just have to agree to disagree with the Rossi can-do-no-wrongers. Funny thing is people have been screaming for close racing in MotoGP for years and now are ready to boycott the series when things get a little hot. I personally can’t wait for Valencia and next season. Is this really the first controversial penalty (or lack of penalty) in MotoGP????? Don’t think so. It did however go against the most popular rider ever – so maybe we should just ignore anything that occurs on the track and automatically rule in favor of Rossi until he retires. Then we can pick the next world’s most popular rider and do the same with him. Am I am MM fan??? No. I think he’s way past due for several penalties. I hate the bombing runs that he performs at will even against his own teammate. And my rider has come up on the short end of his passes several times. But you know what? That’s the way the cookie crumbles and I’ll be damned if it will dissuade me from watching it anymore. The funniest part of this whole controversy is that I have seen harder passes on every lap of every Moto3 race this season. Hell, all the Moto3 riders are probably giggling like little girls at the sight of MotoGP coming unhinged about this.
Please point to one person here who said Rossi can do no wrong. I think every single poster who is taking Rossi’s “side” on this incident has expressed their extreme disappointment in Rossi for getting suckered into MM’s game and playing back. All we’re saying is that Marquez has some culpability in this – as you admitted yourself, he often does – and that he should have been penalized in some way.
Please, let’s try to refrain from taking every point to its ridiculous extreme, as if there’s no middle ground possible.
If it were up to me as race director, I would have taken them into the room after the race and told them in no uncertain terms that any more of this will result in a black flag and a DQ. Call it double-secret probation if you will.
Our issue is that Rossi was blamed for MM’s crash, when it is our contention the Marquez took himself out. If you see it differently, that’s fine. But nobody’s calling you a Marquez apologist fan boy because you have a different opinion…
So Scott let me see if I understand your position (no sarcasm intended). If Marquez would have been penalized also (say 2 or three points) then you would be OK with the penalty given Vale???
Well, let’s see…
Rossi got a point earlier in the year for supposedly going slow on the racing line and holding up Lorenzo (who got on the pole anyway).
Marquez, to my recollection, received no points at all for running into Rossi at Argentina, or running him off the track at Assen.
So using those precedents, I would say assess each of them a point for blocking, since that’s what they both did and that’s the apparent penalty for it.
As for the collision, well, plenty of collisions have occurred during the season that were judged “racing incidents”, so leave it at that.
Of course, I’m using the logic that Marquez had options besides crashing, which some of you guys refute. But since you asked, that’s my answer.
Shame on me for taking the bait (SMF). So you would have Marquez get a point for blocking (for which there is no objective proof) and Vale get a meaningless point for “blocking” (when in fact he slowed, left the racing line & tried to run a rider off the track of which there is plenty of objective proof)???? This scenario basically has no negative consequences for Vale which is similar to saying he did nothing wrong (except make you ashmaed of him). I revert back to my previous comments about Rossi can do no wrong. Peace, out.
Rossi can do no wrong, he is the one, and we shall call him NEO
Run Mickey, save yourself! Conspiracy theorists abound with self rightness impunity. Even though you see it, you better not say it. I’m with you.
The more I look at it, the more I come back to this: If you’re following another bike, by definition you’re more able to see what they’re doing and steer clear. That’s why, when a car is rear-ended, the person following is generally considered to be at fault, even if the person ahead braked unexpectedly. Racing is different, of course…but at that point, I think it’s pretty clear the event had ceased to be a “race” for these two.
I think they both lost their cool; I think the whole situation is unfortunate; and I think that, sadly, there will always be an asterisk next to the name of this year’s championship winner, if not in fact, then in the eyes of the fans. But I find it hard to hold VR responsible for MM’s crash. It simply would not have been that difficult to avoid the collision…and it was blatently obvious, by that point, that MM was more interested in dueling with VR than in circulating the track at the fastest possible speed.
All that said, I’m really looking forward to Valencia.
I don’t know if anyone as already posted this from an italian newspaper.
JL appears to invite the crowd to boo VR by giving a “thumb down” when the speaker calls Valentino to receive the trophy. From his teammate, this is pretty bad and make JL look just as bad as MM.
http://video.corriere.it/lorenzo-contro-valentino-rossi-fa-fa-pollice-sul-podio/51e3a42a-7cd4-11e5-8cf1-fb04904353d9
Yep, that’s unusual, especially from a teammate. Wow.
Stay classy, Jorge…
Bad form. Shame on JLo.
So much for just a wall splitting the pit boxes next season. I’m pretty sure each team will be on opposite sides of pit lane.
If VR has any “connections” in italy, JL could be missing those thumbs
Rossi’s not a “team mate”, Rossi has created a poison atmosphere no matter where his stink has floated out of his panties.
In other news:
Starting in 2016, DORNA to Allow Unlimited Factory Entries in MotoGP Class
Repsol Honda will field Marquez, Pedrosa, Lorenzo, P. Espargaro, A. Espargaro, Vinales, Barbera, Bautista, Rabat, and Rins in unprecedented 10-bike squad…
Also:
The series shall henceforth be known as the MotoEspaña World Championship, presented by Repsol.
More fuel for the fire:
1. President of Spain condemns Rossi’s actions and supports Marquez.
2. Repsol threatens to pull their support for MotoGP due to Rossi’s penalties not being severe enough and claiming Rossi kicked MM off his bike despite all evidence.
3. Yamaha hints that Lorenzo may not have a job in 2016 because of his words/actions at and following Malaysia.
Who the F do the Rossi Fans in these videos think they are?! For cripes sakes – they walk into the Repsol garage area like they have a reason to be there to confront Marquez – WTF?!
Wow………..delusional.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/yamaha-rumored-to-part-ways-with-lorenzo-because-of-his-attitude-in-the-rossi-case-101409.html
“Well, that escalated quickly.” – Ron Burgundy
I’m really starting to think I might not be a MotoGP fan anymore when this season is done. I am still fuming about the Indy decision too.
The Indy decision is sad. It attracted a decent crowd, but I suspect profitability per attendee would likely be pretty low for such a huge facility. So I get it.
Yeah, I’ll bet the rent was pretty steep. I heard the riders did not like the track either but it was great for the fans…..very accessible. Too bad as it brought a lot of money to the area.
1 who cares
2 If they really mean it, they were already looking for way out of MotoGp
3 BS
1. Yep
2. Yep
3. Yep – and if they did, JLO would be on a Honda.
Yeh, I can’t imagine Yamaha punting Lorenzo. The guy is a proven winner.
I agree but how do you manage the situation? I can’t see Rossi going anywhere until he wants to. He sells more Yamahas than anyone else could. Maybe Yamaha trades JL for DP or maybe AI ends up on the other Yamaha?
Perhaps Yamaha has plans for their new “racing robot” they are showing off sooner rather than later?
I have no doubt Yamaha is displeased with JLo’s reaction, but I suspect his possible departure is nothing more than rumor. There are several great riders out there that I think would do well of the Yamaha, but it is going to take some pretty strong feelings to ditch a proven formula for an untested one. I think there would also be some trepidation that Repsol Honda might pick him up. It would suck to have your former champion beating up on next season.
If Yamaha does let him go, it would be because they feel his personality erodes their brand more than his winning lifts it. There may be some weight to that: some people are upset with Marquez and some with Rossi, but everyone is upset with Lorenzo.
We see this same scenario play out quite often in other sports. One guy provokes the other. The second guy retaliates, the official catches it, and it’s the second guy that earns the penalty.
In this instance, Marquez is obviously the first guy and Rossi the second. Marquez provoked Rossi, who responded in such a way that the official threw the flag at him.
However, there is another situation that often occurs. The first guy provokes the other. The second guy responds by pushing him back, or whatever. In response to the retaliatory push, the first guy hauls off and throws a punch at the second guy.
Guess who always gets the penalty there. Guess who is always ejected from the game.
The first guy, the one who completely crossed the line and threw the punch, that’s who. Of course. He took a routine conflict and escalated it to a dangerously violent level, and was caught doing so.
As mentioned earlier, Marquez provoked Rossi. Rossi responded. Had it ended there, Rossi gets the flag. It didn’t end there, however. Nope, Marquez responded to Rossi’s retaliation by choosing to run into Rossi—the motorcycle racer’s equivalent of totally losing his cool and throwing a punch.
Marquez committed the greater foul; in fact, the greatest foul imaginable in motorcycle racing. No matter what else is happening on the track, one simply may not choose to ride his motorcycle into another, not when he has other options, and Marquez had numerous other options. Even if it means being run off into the dirt, which was hardly the case here, as Marquez could have easily opted to tap his brakes and duck under Rossi (among many other available options), that’s what a rider must do. It is then up to the officials to levy punishment upon the offending rider. Just as the proper response to a shove in football, baseball, or basketball is not a punch thrown at the face of a rival, so too is running into another rider equally verboten.
Can’t throw a punch. Can’t run into another rider. Period. This basic rule supersedes all others. It always has and always will.
It must, lest we have anarchy.
And yet, in this instance, the guy who committed the retaliatory shove is being punished and not the guy who both instigated the conflict and threw the punch.
Bottom line, that’s what we’re staring at here. Congratulations, MotoGP. Brilliant job. Against all conventional wisdom, flying in the face of every precedent, you just rewarded the punch thrower.
Ask Gibernau or Stoner if Rossi has ever “simply chose to ride his motorcycle into another”. Jeez man, you are carrying around a Rossi persecution complex. And have you noticed that your viewpoint “flies in the face” of the conclusions drawn by every motor journalist I have read on the incident? Or is it all an all inclusive, worldwide conspiracy to rob the most popular rider of all time a final world championship??????? Oh look, I just received a 1000 dollar check in the mail from an anonymous source just for posting my disagreement with you.
Can you please show us a list of all the journalists that have concluded that VR kicked MM, and that MM was an innocent victim who had nowhere to go?
Thank you.
Yep, Rossi did use Gibernau as a bumper rail. Here’s the difference, though. Race Direction didn’t penalize Gibernau.
That would have been ludicrous, right?
I watched the race also. This version of the incident is nonsense. The author of this post is a blatant apologist for yet another overtly aggressive move by Rossi.
Time for Mr Rossi to retire – he has moved into the frustrated and angry behaviour that is often seen when athletes are at the end of their competitive career.
So then, you would be a blatant Marquez apologist?
I think the videos and commentary disagree with your version of reality…..
Meaning VLJ……
Both your video and EZMark’s confirm that Marquez ran a mile wide on his own, that he had all sorts of room to avoid colliding with Rossi, and that he initiated the contact that led to his fall. There is no question that Marquez could have avoided contact but chose instead to barge his way straight into Rossi.
Both videos also confirm that Rossi did not kick Marquez’s handlebar. They clearly show Marquez hitting Rossi’s leg.
Sorry VLJ, you’re just not recognizing reality here. Marquez approached the turn on the correct line (notice how much the radius decreases after the point where Rossi puts him down), Rossi approaches so far inside that he would have never made the apex at race pace, but then he wasn’t planning on doing so. MM’s head hits Rossi’s leg because rossi is braking and standing his bike up at a point long past where he should’ve been turning in, not because Maq is accelerating. By the point this all happens, they’re both on a part of the track that neither had ever put their wheels in their entire careers because Rossi ran them out there.
The on bike footage on my DVR CLEARLY shows Rossi move his foot from his footpeg to MM’s handlebar and back, in a controlled manner, not an accidental contact between them.
What channel did you record this from? I watched both the FS1 version, which is on my DVR, as well as the MotoGP feed, and I never saw any such camera angle.
I’m not arguing, but I’d really like to see this shot. Can you tell us where on Rossi’s bike this camera was positioned? I’m guessing it had to have been somewhere on the left side fairing, looking backward?
Is there any way you could take a screen shot and post it on YouTube?
The video you posted shows no such thing. It shows the same thing every other video of that incident shows: Marquez leaning into Rossi once, twice, before hitting Rossi’s leg.
If there is another video that clearly shows Rossi intentionally lifting his foot from the peg to hit Marquez’s handlebar—as opposed to his foot and knee momentarily coming off the peg as a result of being struck my Marquez, which is what every video shows—it hasn’t surfaced. It also doesn’t jibe with all the other videos we’ve seen. Moreover, Race Direction already confirmed that Rossi did not kick Marquez’s handlebar. In fact, the only parties that are still making that ridiculous claim are Repsol (laughable), the president of Spain (bwaaa!), and, well, you and Jeremy.
Produce the video.
In the meantime, every video also shows Mark veering wildly off the racing line, entirely on his own. Yes, Rossi followed him out there, but they were both going so slowly at that point and there was so much available track space that Marquez had all the room in the world to avoid a collision. Instead, he opted to create a collision.
Every video shows this, clear as day.
I am not claiming he kicked it. I am claiming he made contact with Marquez’s handlebar. Or Marquez’s handlebar made contact with Rossi’s leg, however you want to say it is fine with me. The front tucked immediately after. I do not in any way believe that to be an intentional act by Rossi to fold Marquez’s bike.
Good enough for me.
~removes Jeremy from the very short, dubious list of parties that claim Rossi kicked Marquez’s handlebar in an effort to make him crash~
Delusional Rossi mist in your eyes VLJ…….Maybe we really are in the Matrix. It’s the only way your version of reality could function.
Good LORD there is a lot of people on here who have drank deeply from the Rossi Kool-Aid fountain. Rossi is human, just like the other riders. He had a bad moment. He has had a lot of bad moments in the past and not been penalized for it. He made a whopping mistake at the worst possible moment. Sh@t happens. Deal with it. Just because he is a great racer doesn’t make him immune from making a mistake occasionally. He did it this time in front of the whole world and got called on the carpet for it. I’m not a Marquez fan…MM has been getting the “Rossi” treatment himself since he has been in MotoGP. But this time Rossi screwed up. Marquez’s passes were hard but fair. What would happen if everytime a rider disliked another rider’s race tactics he took him to the edge of the track??? Nobody would ever complete a lap for chrissakes!!!! Rossi is a great racer but he is NOT perfect and he is NOT a god and he is NOT above the human condition. He broke the rules and, IMHO, got off lightly for it.
Agreed to all……..
There’s plenty of guilt to go around in this mess. The real issue now is how does the season end on a positive note for all concerned? By all concerned I mean Rossi, Marquez, Lorenzo, their teams, their sponsors, Dorna and most of all the fans. Their handlers should convince the three riders to sit down and consider that the three of them finish the warm-up lap by running through the pit lane and stopping at the exit. Then as the field comes by they race cleanly to the finish. For Rossi it restores the chance he lost through his temper to stay with Lorenzo and win his 10th championship, for Marquez it removes the stain of having denied Rossi that chance due to his youthful petulance and for Lorenzo, the jealous team mate, it provides him with a strong chance to win the title fair and square and not be gifted it. No matter how it finishes they would go a long way toward rebuilding their reputations as sportsmen and at the same time provide the fans with what might be a race for the ages.
in other LOSER news…
as all this “argy bargy” unfolded in Sepang, a similar thing was unfolding right here in CONUS at COTA. the Mercedes drivers spat as a team-mate (some characterize as a “party boy”) SUCCESSFULLY defends his title. in an article for ESPN, F1 pundit Kate Walker suggests there is an “Art To Losing”…
“As has already been pointed out by the wits of the internet — Nico Rosberg didn’t wave farewell to his championship chances with a bit of wheelspin late in the American race. Whatever the mathematical reality, Rosberg lost the title months ago — possibly even as early as last winter, when Hamilton set about identifying and eliminating his 2014 weaknesses in order to boost his claim on a third title.”
“What Rosberg seems to have forgotten is that there is a certain grace in losing with dignity, that a good sportsman can find himself venerated despite defeat.”
(in reference to Massa ’08)
“Any anger or misery he may have felt at the loss was kept behind closed doors”.
read it and weep boys…
http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/13975366/kate-walker-nico-rosberg-lewis-hamilton
I’m having a tough time with Nico’s attitude. The kid seems to have a sense of entitlement with a side of envy.
It’s funny…..this Nico/Lewis thing has a Lauda/Hunt flavor to it except they’re on the same team. Maybe even more like Lorenzo/Rossi?
Senna/Prost anyone?
One of the better written articles on this mess.
I agree with this article that Marquez and Rossi brought this on themselves. Our boy Lorenzo, wanting a fee title is the big loser. It’s been handed to him basically, but he wanted more. Should have been the big man, but this happens amongst top athletes; just usually not all of them on the same day… 🙂
https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/10/27/2015_sepang_motogp_round_up_heroes_who_h.html
+1, very good, extensive but covers a lot of points.
David Emmett’s piece is the best analysis I’ve read. It is long but well worth the read. Please go there and exercise your reading skills. You may come away with a different view of the characters in this affair. Yay Dani!
All that matters is who will be the 2015 world champion at the end of the race at valencia. As a Rossi fan I hope (a) most riders will allow rossi an easy pass (b) as many riders as possible will be ahead of Lorenzo (c) the factory Hondas aka marquez will have a fair race and not play any games. Oh, and a very good race for the ducati and suzuki riders that will see them anead of the yamahas – a joke for those of you without a sense of humor.
Do not underestimate the pressure on 99, he is still 7 points behind rossi. Also I am confident that Honda will not allow marquez to embarrass them again (yes, rossi was at fault, but marquez behaved as a spoiled kid, not as the front man of a multi million investment of honda).
Hope we enjoy a clean race.
Why the heck should they “allow an easy pass”? This ain’t dustin’ crops…if Rossi is potentially a GOAT then he should make his way up no problem….
Traffic can be a bad thing – I drive kids to shcool every morning so I consider myself to be an expert hahaha
Never knew there was paint trading in school zones…
LOL I think there was a Far Side (possibly never printed but in a book) of a crossing guard embedded in an old couple’s grill, with them just driving obliviously on of course….
OK – Rossi Fans – take your ROSSI BLINDERS off for a moment………and face facts.
1. At this point – week to week, Marquez is faster than Rossi most of the time.
2. Marquez didnt win the championship because he crashed a lot this year – (AKA…Kevin Schwantz) – when he stayed upright, he usually won.
3. The fight between Lorenzo and Rossi is a battle in the bigger picture of Motogp. I dont understand when people say that no one should race with these guys because they are involved in the championship. If you guys think that Marquez / Pedrosa / Iannone et al.. shouldnt fight with them every week you are an idiot. Maybe they should just send Rossi and Lorenzon out a half lap ahead of everyone to “fight it out”….you guys are ridiculous!
4. Rossi has always played head games with fast competitors in the past….and almost always won (Lorenzo being the exception). That was his game with Marquez because he couldnt outrace and beat him on the track. If Rossi didnt want to race with him, he should have gone faster just like Pedro and Lorenzo did this week. He couldnt – so he locked into a battle with him instead.
5. When he couldnt shake off Marquez – Rossi got frustrated and didnt know what to do. He intentionally went well off the racing line (straight in the corner) – throttled well off – ran Marquez up the track and when they came together becasue of ROSSI’S trajectory – kicked at him, hit his brake lever and down Marquez went. It was a childish act becasue for once Rossi couldnt come out on top and win – and he didnt know what to do.
6. Rossi got off easy – he should have had his points removed for the race and started at the back of the grid.
And if your Rossi guys think I’m nuts – Just reverse the bikes and what would you be saying about Marquez right now?? I’ll tell you – THAT MARQUEZ TOOK ROSSI OUT! Don’t deny it and don’t deny reality………..
re: “I dont understand when people say that no one should race with these guys because they are involved in the championship.”
yet there is no SHORTAGE of understanding when say, Karel Abraham is shown a blue flag. a long understood and accepted principle found IN the MotoGP rulebook.
Which is the case when you are being LAPPED and you are WELL OFF the race pace – no fair analogy or comparison here……
Correct. You have to race your peers regardless of what the championship points count is. Each race is its own entity with the podium up for grabs to anyone who can take it.
re: “You have to race your peers”
which must be balanced with RESPECT for your peers.
admittedly, these are advanced concepts that can only be processed effectively by an ADULT mind. ie. something Marc DOESN’T possess.
but no worries, the paddock (and the public) are about to give him one.
re: “no fair analogy or comparison here”
like hell, he’s out of the points.
doesn’t mean Marc then gets to use a bike that runs top 5 (nay top 3) as cover for his unsportsmanlike conduct as he FAILS to defend his championship.
everybody seems to forget we have a 22 year old (a child under my roof) losing his #1 plate.
Damn Norm you know everything.
I think Honda would disagree with you. He is a 2 time Motogp champion that is paid handsomely to do exactly what he was doing. Beat everyone else on track – especially from a different manufacturer.
Why didnt Rossi just “motor away” like Lorenzo and and Pedro did? Obviously – because he is not fast enough. The only reason Rossi is even in the picture is because he has been more consistent – usually not faster. He should have fallen in line behind Marq when he realized he wasnt fast enough to beat him. Marq could have towed him back up the grid. If not – they could have settled 3rd and 4th in the last couple of laps. Instead Rossi tried once again to “Prove a point”…….and this time it cost him. I would argue it should have cost him a lot more…..
And BTW – I’m not a Marquez fan – I actually like Rossi – but the old warhorse was flat-out wrong this time.
re: “I think Honda would disagree with you”
Honda would also LIE that they don’t have back door control of MotoGP, but that’s another conversation for another time.
Maybe Morm –
They should just let Rossi and Lorenzon race first at Valencia – after all they are the only one “in the points”…..
2 questions –
1. At what point can someon race with Rossi and Lorenzo given your viewpoint?
2. Would you have the same attitude if the roles were reversed?? Rossi (in this scenario out of the pooints) running with the championship contending Marquez – would Rossi have the ability to race Marquez at that point?
Oh Norm – conspiracies arise………(eye roll)……
re: “The only reason Rossi is even in the picture is because he has been more consistent”
right then, the prime reason Marcus ISN’T in the picture is because (like Rosberg in F1) he lost the title months ago.
tap, tap, tap, is this thing on…???
re: “conspiracies arise”
nothing “conspiratory” about being a whopping -90 points off from Rossi’s 312.
no, EMBARRASSING is what that is when you’re a 22 year old hot shoe, and have grown accustom to Spanish Media telling you that you’re God’s gift…
“coochy coochy coo”.
Q: “would Rossi have the ability to race Marquez at that point?”
A: Nope. (Lt. Aldo Raines voice)
and Ross should catch the same hell for interference.
Q: At what point can (someone) race with Rossi and Lorenzo given your viewpoint?
A: when they’re IN CONTENTION points wise.
what we all wanted to see was a square showdown between Ross and Jay, and thanks to Marc’s fragile EGO, the worldwide racing community has now been ROBBED of this. the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few (or in this case, the needs of the MARCUS).
look, the FIM only awards 1 Riders Title, not 2, not 3, not 4…? the plaque for the “alternates” is down in the LADIES ROOM.
ROSSI robbed you of it – not the FIM………..
“The LADIES ROOM” ah knowitall AND sexist. Great.
Plus “Marc’s fragile EGO” – yeah again Rossi had NO FAULT in any of his own behavior in this flap. Again, as pointed out by others, Schumacher sure comes to mind, and as pointed out by myself, Senna.
Go and watch Montegi 2010 Norm.
What Rossi did was a standard block pass used in SuperCross at every turn two riders find themselves in
Not standard. Not Supercross. But thanks for reminding everybody that there’s another kind of racing (with blue collar racers, not prima donnas) to be enjoyed.
meh
Rossi was probably wrong in his actions, but it brought serious attention to the reality of what Marquez has actually been doing for a while and his actions have far more serious repercussions for the whole MotoGP circus. How can anyone trust what his real intentions are at any given race especially if the championship is out of reach for him? Honda must be scratching their heads really hard right now and I hope they decide to leave Marquez off the grid for the last race so that the race can run fair and square.
Dorna won’t allow their golden boy to sit out the race…
re: “Dorna won’t allow their golden boy to sit out the race”
Dorna would merely “dislike” their golden boy sitting out.
they could honestly do f$%kall to stop him. he could sit in Urbino and watch the race on MotoGP, then afterwards hold a press conference in town square announcing his retirement. OMG, his nana’s taken ill…!?
Marquez is so much faster than Rossi he can just toy with him and pass him wherever and whenever he wants. Rossi picked the wrong guy to head stuff. Why he would rant about someone who is not in contention is beyond me.
Val was hoping that calling out MM he would back down. But dumb a$$ MM made things worse. Too bad MM could not have been penalized for being a child! I bet you if MM didn’t fall, once him and Val were down enough time he would have made up the time again like last race and finish 1st or 2nd. Val should retire like Casey Stoner, Motogp and the Spanish mafia is getting really bad. I just cancelled my subscription to watching Motogp. Too bad VAL won’t win this title!
re: “Marquez is so much faster than Rossi”
Marc’s BIKE is much faster than Ross, in much the same way we saw Iannone’s D16 “go back to the future” last week at Philip Island.
inverted natcork, JL bike where ahead… therefore…
re: “inverted natcork”
nope, traces of peeled blue and peeled orange paint can be found on Crazy Joe’s kit.
but thank God for his DNF right…? this means we can go check for this, as he DIDN’T get SCUTTLED like so much Russian submarine as we saw happen to Dovi when Crutchlow dove under him and touched HIS bike/handlebar during this same race.
curious do you guys pay attention at all to these races…? or are they just on for “background noise”…?
This is all Pedrosa’s fault.
MM is a spoiled brat and a liar, hope he gets what is coming to him.
40 years of continuous championships, history remembered the greatest and mightiest racer of all time, the one who prevent the villain VR from getting another gp championship.
in 2020 as result of better and better riding, cure to cancer where develop, peace treatments where signed across the world, Hyosung got 1% US market share and inflation where decreased to -1000%, suddenly a cent on the bank would make you rich instantaneously.
as a result MM where put on an oval where he will race forever to keep the system going.
Taurus horoscope: double shot of whiskey on Valencia final, buy a big yellow hand that says “Vamos Vale”
Conspiracy theory #1: “Vamos Vale Valencia”, tripple v, planets align… I knew it!
Addendum: I agree with Thud above: it’s all Pedrosa’s fault.
What has Marques lied about?? What does he have “coming to him……………..?”
Q: What does he have “coming to him(?)”
A: self-acceptance that he’s ignominiously failed to defend his title.
and not on his feet challenging either…? but “Stoner style” upside down in the gravel with gas pouring out the tank. psychologically, that’s gotta be hard on the kid.
but that’s not Ross’ fault, he should take it up with HRC boffins for “trying to fix what isn’t broken”. that’s engineering “no-no” 101.
I’m praying for RAIN at the final race.
I dunno what this nonsense is about Rossi “running Marquez” off. What Rossi did was a block pass, but he slowed on the racing line to force Marques to slow even more. Marquez tried to ram his way through and went down. His bike hit Rossis leg and Rossi was trying to get his foot back on the peg. Aggressive but so was a lot of the stuff Marques was pulling.
it was quite a long way off a mere block pass.
If you see the corner and where those guys were, it’s nowhere near close.
What it looks like rossi tried to do was to run Marquez to the end of the track. Now, you can bluff that on the exit of a corner, saying that your speed carried you out there, but on the way in? Get real.
No, that isn’t what happened at all. If you look at the overhead footage, you’ll see that Rossi ran Marquez all the way to the end of the track and that Marquez would have had to leave the track had he not turned in towards Rossi. Rossi left the racing line completely.
Or MM could have slowed down… :-0
(He actually had plenty of room before the edge of the track.)
Bill says:
(He actually had plenty of room before the edge of the track.)
Disagree… the turn was getting tighter to the right and Rossi was still on an angle which would block any attempt to go around (easily seen from above view)..MM had 3 choices (1) stop altogether (2) run off the track into the grass (3) lean in and try and force VR into continuing the turn.
he chose the latter. I’d have chosen choice # 1 and raised my arms as in well, what to do want to do now?
there is a great editorial on the whole thing over at MotoMatters
Sure, he could have stopped.
The overhead view shows that he did not have plenty of room. The trajectory Rossi forced him on would have taken him off the track had he not come to a nearly complete stop.
I basically have the same response “in moderation” right now lol
Did we all miss the memo? Was Marc running a Speedway bike? No, he wasn’t? He was riding a normal MotoGP bike?
So his bike did have brakes, right? If so, and I’m pretty sure it did, then you seem to want to overlook the other super-easy option Marc had, in addition to the equally easy options of: 1. Not running wildly, inexplicably wide before deciding to run straight into Rossi 2. Simply continue on. There was still plenty of track available, especially at the slow speed he was traveling. He was in no danger of running off the track.
Anyway, option three…
3. Tap the brakes and duck back beneath Rossi. He was behind Rossi. The entire track was available to him. Rather than let off the gas before accelerating directly into Rossi, he easily could have tapped the brakes and veered to the right, taking the inside line back from Rossi.
There were so many easy options, yet he chose the only one that could lead to him landing on the ground: letting off and then accelerating, leaning straight into Rossi’s bike.
And, no, Rossi did not “run him all the way to the end of the track.” Marquez went WAY off the racing line all on his own. Once there, Marquez still had plenty of room. They weren’t at the end of the track. Not even close. Marquez has squeezed through much tighter spaces—and at much higher speeds—than that.
Marquez probably could have done any number of things but was likely riding under the impression that Rossi was still sane. By the time he realized that was false, there was only stop, go off the track or try to force Rossi to make the turn. I would have turned into the chump as well, and I’m sure Rossi (or any of the top guys) would have done the same if roles were reversed.
They would have both remained upright had Rossi not hit Marquez’s handlebar, but that doesn’t matter as the foul took place before that. So whether Marquez fell, ran off the track or stopped for smoke, it doesn’t make a difference.
Marquez didn’t need to stop. He merely needed to tap his brakes. Or turn. Or accelerate. Or hang back. Anything, really. They were going so slowly, any maneuver besides running straight into Rossi would have been as easy as pie.
And, no, Rossi didn’t hit Marquez’s handlebar. Marquez leaned into Rossi. He initiated the contact, not Rossi. Had Marquez not ridden into him, Rossi would have kept on riding while giving Marquez another “Wtf?!” look.
As for Rossi’s “foul,” well, it was nothing but a low-speed block pass. It was the same thing Marquez kept doing to Rossi, over and over. And Rossi didn’t make Marquez abandon the racing line and veer a mile wide. Marquez did that all on his own. Once Rossi saw this, all he did was try to block him. He didn’t try to run him off the track or make him crash. He certainly was never going to hit him.
Rossi hit the handlebar as he raised his leg. I do not think he did that on purpose as that is a very normal reaction to getting touched and Marquez was right there.
That was not a block pass. A block pass involves choking the line you expect your opponent might take while you are still racing. That is what Marquez and Rossi were doing leading up to this incident. When you stop racing to block the whole track, that is a different thing altogether.
ok so lets say MM had a couple options, Rossi had options as well right?
When MM went wide Rossi (1) didn’t have to follow him (2)he could have cut off the blockade at any point before the incident and continued to race (3)could have tightened his line and accelerated away from him (4) could have continued to do battle and eventually leave MM behind,therefore finishing 3rd (5) continued to do battle and maybe make MM run into HIM, (6) continue to battle and lose 3rd place ending up in 4th with a few less points, but still a lead in the points chase and not having to start from last on the grid at the Championship deciding race.
Choices and consequences. We all have to make them and live with the results
Jeremy and Mickey are making sense but a good majority of the posters here talking with their arse because their mouth knows better. Power is nothing without control and Rossi just plain lost it.
Mark, looking at the tape you’re going to say Rossi could not have turned any tighter in that corner?
also this is what Rossi and his team manager Lin Jarvis admitted to. They both admitted to running Marques to the edge of the track. So after viewing the tape you want to call Rossi a liar and say he didn’t do what he admitted to saying he did?
I know reading my posts you’d think I’m anti Rossi but anyone who has read every post I’ve written knows I was pulling for Rossi to get his 10th and have been all season. This was a bone headed move on his part. I’m NOT saying he knocked Marquez down, I am saying he quit “racing” in order to intimidate Marquez and in doing so set this incident into motion resulting in the crash. The same conclusion Race Direction came up with and the same conclusion the FIM came up with.
and if you look at the freeze frame of Rossi’s first gesture to Marquez a couple laps before, Rossi makes a block pass, looks back, then looks back at the track and then shoots Marquez the finger as he rides away. It wasn’t a WTF, it was a F U. That had to help the situation. (sarcasm)
Exactly. Rossi was fed up with Marc’s blatant antics, to the point that he’d already demonstrated his displeasure once before in the race. The second time was just a much slower, more exaggerated block pass, which Marc set himself up for by running a mile wide on his own, for no apparent (good) reason.
VLJ says:
” which Marc set himself up for by running a mile wide on his own, for no apparent (good) reason.”
Given that is a true statement..so VR just HAD to follow him out there. He had no other options right?
Race direction, the FIM and his own Team Manager seems to think he had other options
Of course he had options, and he chose the same one Marc had repeatedly chosen, i.e., to slow down and block.
Was it the wisest decision? Nope, definitely not, as it unfairly cost him the championship, but it was no worse than what Marquez had already done countless times. Plus, Rossi didn’t lie about anything. Marc did. On top of that, Marc was clearly targeting Rossi, when he had no business doing so.
Then, to cap it off, Marquez flat-out ran into Rossi, again. He had an easy half dozen better, safer options, as did Rossi, but only Rossi chose one of those safer options. Marquez chose to run into another rider.
When the video clearly shows Marquez barging into Rossi, which it most certainly does, it is sheer lunacy to penalize Rossi instead of penalizing Marquez. You keep saying that Rossi didn’t need to do what he did, that he had plenty of other options, and, granted, he did. So did Marquez. The difference is, Rossi’s decision only hurt his lap time. It wasn’t the best racing strategy, obviously, but his decision did not endanger himself or any other riders. He left Marc all sorts of safe, easy options. Marc’s decision forced a crash. Just as you say Rossi could have done, so too could Marquez have easily chosen another tact. Instead, and unlike Rossi, Marquez opted to force a collision, exposing himself and another rider to potential injury.
Weigh each decision. Whose was truly the more reckless? Who broke the most cardinal rule of motorcycle racing by intentionally colliding with another rider?
This is a no-brainer.
VLJ says
“You keep saying that Rossi didn’t need to do what he did, that he had plenty of other options, and, granted, he did.”
BINGO
Thank you
Now quote the rest of what I wrote…
“So did Marquez. The difference is, Rossi’s decision only hurt his lap time. It wasn’t the best racing strategy, obviously, but his decision did not endanger himself or any other riders. He left Marc all sorts of safe, easy options. Marc’s decision forced a crash. Just as you say Rossi could have done, so too could Marquez have easily chosen another tact. Instead, and unlike Rossi, Marquez opted to force a collision, exposing himself and another rider to potential injury.”
BINGO
You’re welcome.
VLJ – I’m sure you’re a good guy, but you obviously cant look at his impartially and it shows in your replies…
Sure, says the guy who swears Rossi kicked Marquez’s handlebar, causing him to crash.(This, despite every video proving otherwise. I know, I know, you and Jeremy saw some “Magic Bullet” video that somehow reveals Rossi’s peg-bound boot to lift even before Rossi’s leg was struck by Marquez. Every other video clearly shows Rossi’s leg didn’t move until it was struck by Marquez, but, well, never mind.)
Nope, no crazy bias on your part. None whatsoever. You’re tilting at phantoms, basing everything on a mirage, but I’m the one lacking impartiality.
Love how you also fail to grasp the most obvious, indisputable point of all: Regardless of each rider’s dubious displays of on-track gamesmanship, only one rider initiated direct contact with another rider. More damning, this one rider was afforded myriad opportunities to avoid a collision and chose to create contact anyway. That one rider was Marc Marquez, not Valentino Rossi. That one rider has also done this exact same thing on multiple occasions, with nary a single penalty levied against him by his Spanish keepers.
Ignoring all this, there is your basis for impartiality.
Take a bow. Your brand of level-headed equanimity is a shining beacon of steadfast righteousness to all and sundry.
🙂
He’s a great guy… But if you had read any of his posts about Hayden, you’d know he is prone to delusion.
Nice.
:thumbs up:
re: “This was a bone headed move on his part. I’m NOT saying he knocked Marquez down, I am saying he quit “racing” in order to intimidate Marquez and in doing so set this incident into motion resulting in the crash.”
right then, why are you unable to rewind the hands of your “thought clock” to the beginning…? but instead deliberately start in the CENTRE of the timeline, and show yourself INABLE to solve this problem, or any other you might encounter…?
The beginning of what? The universe? The beginning of the season? The beginning of the race when the lights go out? Say something that makes some sense for once will you?
Well, I can’t solve Rossi’s problem or Marquez’s or MotoGP’s or Dorna’s or apparently Norm’s problems either (whatever those might be).
The beginning doesn’t really matter. I know it was certainly frustrating for Rossi, but the only part of the timeline that matters is when he went vigilante on Marquez for whatever grievances he felt, real or perceived.
No, the only part that ought to matter is when one rider takes it upon himself to hit another. Everything else is just rider gamesmanship. If you’re honestly looking for an example of a rider going rogue vigilante, and truly wish to penalize the wrongdoer, there’s your huckleberry.
gentlemen, you may not be young in age, but I contend you are all “baby young” to grandprix.
as such you lack the MotoIQ (a term you’ve only heard me mention before) to properly evaluate what you’ve witnessed.
Q: “The beginning of what? The universe? The beginning of the season?”
A: the CONFLICT.
re: “Aggressive but so was a lot of the stuff Marques was pulling.”
see, the Maple Leaves get it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkBLsZMWylQ
You’re not based in reality…………..
Yep, that video only further confirms that Marquez ran a mile off the racing line for no (good) reason, and that he alone created the contact, and that Rossi never kicked his handlebar, and that Marquez caused his own crash despite having numerous safer, smarter, better options.
Case closed. Stick a fork in this one.
re: “Stick a fork in this one.”
mmmn Marcus carcass, tastes like “loser chicken”.
“Stick a fork in this one.”
You’ll need to pull it out of Rossi’s ass first.
True. And it’s doubtless a paella fork.
regardless of what anyone wants to think or believe, Rossi was completely in the wrong in this situation. therefor he was penalised accordingly by Dorna. the points he has accrued throughout the season (per the pre-existing rulebook) force him to start from the back of the grid. it was not a personal decision by any one or multiple members of Dorna. THERE ARE NO CONSPIRACIES HERE.
Rossi has no one to blame but himself. his behaviour got him into this particular predicament. unfortunately only a handful of people are unbiased enough to understand or admit to this. he purposely slowed down, intentionally got in Marquez’ way, looked at him several times to make his point, and the rest is disappointing. there is no denying the facts.
i don’t really care if Rossi rides or not, i’ll still be watching the race.
Lorenzo has outrode Rossi for many years now, hands down. and he’s outrode him this year also, winning more races.
if Rossi is the undisputed king of 2 wheeled racing (which he is not, that’d be Ago and Hailwood), then he should have just rode away and let his riding do the talking.
arguably Rossi himself started all this shit with the Phillip Island smack talking to begin with. in my opinion, just shut up and ride your bike. this isn’t Jerry Springer, it’s MotoGP…
Great post……….
Bottom line – Rossi stopped racing and then acted like a jerk towards MM, then continued with the race. What if MM got seriously injured. I was a Rossi fan until this totally avoidable immature move. Rossi should have gotten the same number of points MM received for that race. Too bad.
Just for that i’m gonna beat all them thar aliens with a Buell in the next race.
re: “Rossi stopped racing and then acted like a jerk towards MM”
but wait “Crash Bandicoot” who’s almost 100 points out, and pissed that he’s losing his title is NOT acting like a jerk. ok got it.
Will the race officials review ALL the tapes of the incident and amend the penalty on VR, or will they try to avoid embarrassment by staying with their original decision?
No one comes out good in this. Rossi loses a championship that he could have won fair and square. MM becomes a hated character by half of all MotoGP fans and Lorenzo gets a freebee and is also hated by half the fans. How to get out of this Dorna? Get the three of them to agree to pledging a clean race then let them shake hands and start from the pit exit together when the lights go out and the field passes. The spectacle would be incredible with them scything through to the front. Can you see it in your head? May the best man win.
I don’t think I’ve seen this helicopter video linked by anyone in this thread https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xNpQyFe8y0. To me, it’s a better angle. MM initially does go out quite wide, then VR drifts out, presumably with the intention to block him and force him to lift to fall in behind. I am guessing that VR is looking back so intently to see when MM hits the binders, he will pin the throttle at that moment to get as big a gap as possible. Instead, MM tries to force his way through, and although it’s a bit blurry, either his forearm or his hand/handlebar make contact with VR’s lower leg. In reaction, VR pushes out his knee (foot still on peg), which moves the handlebar and down goes MM. Not very close to how MM described it, but neither was he headbutting as the other video seems to support. IMO, VR is partly at fault for trying to run MM out of track, and Lin Jarvis’ comments are similar; but MM more at fault for taking one for the team by initiating contact. If they both go down, game over. If just he goes down and it looks like some blame will go VR’s way, still a good chance to get the result he did.
This angle definitely supports the take that VR obviously went wide to mess with MM. Bad decision.
#BoycottValencia Let’s start a movement: If Dorna’s penalty isn’t reversed, or at least isn’t reduced from 3 penalty points to just 2, which would allow Rossi to start where he qualifies, then I’m not gonna watch the race. Period. (What would be the point ?).
#BoycottValencia = Lame.
A single-rider boycott is like the ultimate form of whining, so I hope he doesn’t do that. Rossi was in the wrong this time no matter what people want to believe, so he needs to just suck it up, show up and ride like a mad demon to get up to the front. That is the best thing he can do for himself and his fans. I’m not counting on it, but it would be monumentally epic if he is jockeying for a championship-winning position by the end of the race.
Agreed, after reviewing more comments/descriptions it sounds like MM was “asking for it” to a certain extent but it was still on VR to deal with him by leaving him in the dust, not running wide/off-line and getting into a petty dust-up like that.
The only thing VR can do to save this is to win the championship fair and square in the last race – I’m expecting him to fairly easily get to say the top 6 if not better so while it’s a long shot it’s definitely possible….
Watching the race as “the incident” happened, I couldn’t believe what I had just seen. I felt so bad for Rossi, that he had let his emotions get the better of him and had kicked Marquez out of anger that he couldn’t shake him off. Even watching all the FS1 replays shown from what must have been 8 different camera angles made it look like Rossi had done wrong. HOWEVER, after reading Dorna’s press release that acknowledged that Marquez was suspiciously speeding up and slowing down, which would indicate he was trying to prevent Rossi from having a fair attempt to close the gap to Lorenzo, and after seeing the new video posted, and re-reading Vale’s comments, and all 180 comments in this thread, I have reached a simple conclusion: Rossi was provoked by Marquez, and instinctively pushed him away with his thigh/leg when Marquez head-butted him. Vale is still my hero, and I think I actually now admire him more now than even before Sepang. Shame on Marquez, not Rossi.
Even if MM punked him, which I admit appears likely as noted above, VR still should’ve just outrun the twerp. If that wasn’t possible (which it also looks like, and that MM was giving him the buzzing of flies treatment), VR still had himself to blame for being there and not able to get away…and for how he ultimately handled the situation.
Agreed. I just feel that Dorna’s penalty was too harsh, and ruins the finale to what could have been the ultimate showdown between #46 & #99. Plus Dorna’s Spanish bias seems like a real issue, and Dorna should have erred on the side of removing suspicions by penalizing Vale 2 points, not 3.
Even if Rossi was indeed provoked, he still let his emotions get the better of him and committed a foul.
I don’t know Marquez’s intent with respect to “messing” with Rossi (nor does anyone but Marquez himself). The passing was aggressive by both riders, and that slows the two down no matter what. Under normal conditions, I would expect both riders to try and tow each other back up to the front. But though die-hard Rossi fans would never accept it, there is the possibility that Marquez decided he could not keep Pedrosa or JLo’s pace and decided to fight it out for third. Or maybe Marquez stepped up to the fight Rossi had picked earlier that week. Neither action is against the rules, and Rossi is the one that lost his composure.
Personally, while many seem to assume that Marquez could have just instantaneously squirted to the front of the pack whenever he wanted, I think his pace was off. Even in the multi-lap duel with Rossi, it was clear that the Honda was moving around a lot more and that Marquez was really working. I believe that Marquez knew letting Rossi get away would insure a 4th place finish for him, and he fought for the podium spot. Is it reality? I don’t know, but it seems more plausible than Marquez deciding he will spit polish the championship and hand it to Lorenzo which is what many seem to think.
“Neither action is against the rules, and Rossi is the one that lost his composure.”
+ 1
“…it seems more plausible than Marquez deciding he will spit polish the championship and hand it to Lorenzo which is what many seem to think.”
+1
total:+2, right on.
re: “he still let his emotions get the better of him and committed a foul.”
no such thing as a “foul” when a man is defending himself from attack.
but defence stipulates this IS something they have in baseball.
it’s good job this ain’t MLB.
“it’s good job this ain’t MLB.”
You are correct: it’s MotoGP, and it is called a penalty. Which you can earn by defending yourself with actions that do not involve racing.
“A championship-winning position” – which is interesting, as by my math* JL has to be 1st or 2nd to really have a near-lock. If he’s third I think VR only has to get 6th to still have the championship?
* I don’t know who’d win in a tie and can’t research that deep right now, so I’ve assumed VR must be a point ahead
JL wins on a tie due to more race wins this year.
I thought so, but was at work so couldn’t dig too much! I’d be interested if the rest of my math is right but I think so.
re: “A single-rider boycott is like the ultimate form of whining”
there’s no whining in baseball…!!! err… MotoGP.
What race was it that Rossi had to come from the back of the pack and won it?
Phillip Island, some years back…
After watching the slow motion video of the incident (93 was clearly leaning in), and the words of #99 afterwards voicing his disappointment in the lack of a harsher punishment for his teammate, I’m hoping Rossi doesn’t boycott. I’m hoping for a safe ride by #46 and a mechanical DNF by #99…
And now there is apparently talk of Rossi boycotting Valencia…
http://superbikeplanet.com/2015/Oct/151026a16.htm
Mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, this would indicate that he truly does feel wronged, and that he truly feels Marquez should not be rewarded for what Rossi thinks Marquez did to him.
On the other hand, I would dearly love to see an intensely pissed-off Valentino Rossi ride totally balls-out, with nothing to lose. This situation reminds me of the story Dean Adams posted at superbikeplanet.com about Nicky Hayden in his early days, and how it wasn’t a good idea to make Nicky mad before a race.
Then again, I could also picture Rossi simply bagging the race, as another form of protest. Rather than violate the terms of his contract with Yamaha by refusing to race, he might simply troll along in last place, stopping to do donuts on the track and wave at the fans.
I guess either spectacle would be worth witnessing.
I don’t know whether there is any “upon further review” mechanism available to Race Direction but if there is and Yamaha has the option of making them watch this latest video showing Marquez to be clearly at fault, perhaps the threat of a Rossi boycott might have some teeth in terms of a penalty reduction for Rossi.
I doubt such a mechanism exists.
Oh well.
I think Rossi already appealed to race direction and to the FIM, those were both of his avenues for appeal. Both denied the appeals.
He did, but I don’t know whether this latest video was available at the time of those appeals. I also don’t know whether it even matters now.
You know after years of guys claimimg motogp was boring we finally get an exciting season and this crap happens. No matter who wins the championship and I figure Lorenzo is already planning his Broadway number for the celebrations, it’s us die hard fans who are the real losers.
Also Notice other than Lorenzo, ( and Stoner who no longer counts) I have not seen a single report from a fellow GP rider weighing in on this. I find that quite interesting.
Going to be a strange Valencia.
Pedrosa danced around every question about this topic at the press conference(poor dude).
yea nothing like coming back from possible career ending injuries and a few months later in a 4 span race, winning 2 races and finishing on the podium in a third and 4th in the other and all the questions being about Rossi and MM. Geesh poor guy.
Fairly sure none of the other riders wish to run afoul of either of the two biggest icons (and factory teams) in the sport. Best for them just to keep their thoughts to themselves.
After watching Marquez for a few seasons now and after seeing this latest video, I don’t need to hear anyone else’s opinion on what they think might have happened. Marquez runs into people from behind far too often, and Rossi has been at this game far too long to misconstrue what was going on. He knew what he was witnessing, starting at Phillip Island. This latest video removes all doubt as to Marquez’s culpability. His ridiculous claim that Rossi kicked his brake lever to make him crash only further cements his utter lack of credibility.
Nothing is ever Marc’s fault. Doesn’t matter how many times he does it, either. As long as he trots out that goofy Joker grin while feigning his particularly transparent brand of fresh, youthful innocence, he knows he will get away with it.
And why not? He knows he has the implicit backing of the Spanish Mafia that runs the sport. As their most marketable Made Man, he knows he’s an Untouchable.
after reading Lorenzo’s comments, I’m hoping Rossi shows up rather than boycotting, and rides a safe ride and we see a #99 mechanical DNF…
And 99 rear-ends him as his bike slows!
*93
I have to say I thought this was Rossi’s fault watching it till I saw the helicopter footage. Marquez leans into Rossi first, and then Rossi’s foot comes out. You can’t see that from the trackside cameras. They both played a roll, but that footage changed it in my eyes from pure Rossi’s fault to mutual.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKiMMANG5fU
I agree this is a very telling angle. How Rossi is penalized after seeing this is beyond me.
Seems like Rossi now has to beat not only JL but MM and Dorna in order to win. Dorna should just go ahead and name their Spanish champion and be done with it.
I’d consider telling them to stick their illegitimate moto-gp title where the sun don’t shine if I were VR.
Wouldn’t it be great if Lorenzo decided not to qualify for Valencia and start from the back with Rossi? What a credit to Lorenzo and the best man would win. It would be a year to remember.
THAT would be AWESOME.. And smart too, otherwise he wins with an asterisk.
Brilliant idea. Wish I’d thought of it.
Better yet, screw it, just make it a match race, like they used to do in thoroughbred racing. How awesome would that be, just the two of them lined up on the grid, best man wins….
Just like in Cars! (But without Chick Hicks… er, MM) 😉
The tragedy here is that the fans won’t get the joy of witnessing an epic race for the Championship, after an entire season building up to the final race.
Marquez was clearly messing with Rossi, no question about it, after seeing several videos of the action leading up to the incident. Rossi clearly got fed up and went in to confront him (Rossi was definitely wrong to go wide and do that). Ultimately, Marquez forced the final contact, as the video below shows pretty clearly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKiMMANG5fU
I believe both Rossi and Marquez deserved sanctions, as Marquez was definitely provoking him and attempting to ruin his chances of winning the title. I just wish MotoGP would have taken away more points or something, rather than moving Rossi to the back of the grid for the final race. They’ve all done their loyal fans a disservice.
I’m not saying Rossi was in the right here, he definitely wasn’t, but if I’m him, I’d be inclined to tell MotoGP I’m done. It will be a big financial hit for them once he finally walks away. Part of me would like to see him do that in an attempt to get them to reconsider the sanctions. Again, I’m not calling the sanctions unfair or undeserved, as they were deserved, but for selfish reasons I would love the see the final race have the drama it deserves..
re: “if I’m him, I’d be inclined to tell MotoGP I’m done.”
that’s what i’m screaming. Ross should consider NOT gridding up at Valencia at all.
Jarvis…? yeah this is Vale (cough cough) i’m not feeling well, gonna use a sick day…
CLICK…!!!
everything was clear from this video below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKiMMANG5fU
Marquez tried to push Rossi first,
The little spaniard raced to slowdown VR in the last two races, with nothing to loose an nothing to win, only to damage VR chances to win the title. I’m sad that VR has fallen into the MM’s game, but he is human too, and I totally understand his angry with the stupid and deliberate MM’s actions.
Go Vale for the title !!
Come on boys. Rossi intentionally ran Marquez wide. Is there any debate about that? No. Was there a more flagrant foul on the track at Philip Island or Sepang? No. Without Rossi’s actions, Marquez wouldn’t have ended up on the ground. Case closed. As I said, sad day all around for MotoGP.
“Come on boys. Rossi intentionally ran Marquez wide.”
No, he didn’t. The video I just re-posted clearly shows that Marc went wide all on his own, to the point that Rossi turned to look at him and say, “Wtf are you doing?”
“Is there any debate about that?”
Not now, there isn’t. Rossi clearly did not run MM wide. MM did that entirely on his own.
“Was there a more flagrant foul on the track at Philip Island or Sepang?”
The only flagrant foul was Marquez running into someone from behind, for the umpteenth time. Rossi never touched him and never made him run a mile wide. Marquez intentionally hit Rossi, not the other way around. Rossi certainly didn’t make him crash.
“Without Rossi’s actions, Marquez wouldn’t have ended up on the ground.”
Without Marquez’s actions, Marquez wouldn’t have ended up on the ground. All Rossi did was slow down and look over his shoulder at this idiot who ran a mile wide for no reason before accelerating right into him. And, even then, there still wouldn’t have been a collision and a crash, except that Marquez flat-out leaned right into Rossi’s bike and created contact.
Again, this wasn’t even the first time that Marquez fell after running into Rossi from behind.
“Case closed.”
Yep, the video proves that Marc was lying, that he instigated the incident, that he ran wide entirely on his own before ducking back in and accelerating into Rossi, and that Marquez caused his own crash.
Rossi was 100% correct about what he’d already accused Mark of doing at Phillip Island, and he was 100% correct in his explanation of what happened in Sepang.
Marquez is otherworldly fast, but he’s also a spoiled brat. Why he decided to insinuate himself into the championship on Lorenzo’s behalf—Lorenzo rides for Yamaha, not for Repsol Honda—is anyone’s guess, but insinuate himself on Lorenzo’s behalf he most certainly did. Anyone else in his position—a couple of laps into the race, and clear track—would have respectfully stayed out of the way of the two championship combatants. Not Marquez. He did so for Lorenzo, but not for Rossi. Then he compounded it, over and over.
And then…this.
Dirty.
To me it looks more like VR looks at him provokingly. Like “there I took your line what do you think about THAT”.
Yes, disappointed fans are seeing what they want to see. Yes MM was wide, then Rossi came to visit, slowed down, blocked MM, and ran him wider. Even if MM has stayed up it’s still the biggest foul we saw in the 2 races because there is no way it can be called a racing incident. Rossi’s clear intent was to let MM know he didn’t approve of MM racing him so hard. MM tried to bull his way through and with or without help from Rossi he went down. MM’s front tucked so fast it had to be due to one of the two hitting MM’s front brake. MM’s front wheel is straight until Rossi’s leg is out. Can’t tell if Rossi’s leg move was offense or defense. Either way, MM stays up if Rossi races on rather then interferes with MM.
Either way, Marquez stays up if he doesn’t run straight into Rossi…again. The contact that felled Marquez was all on Marquez. He had plenty of room to avoid contact. Rossi never touched him, unless you consider getting hit BY him touching him.
“Yes, Your Honor, I punched his fist with my face.”
I agree. I think your evaluation and analysis of the incident is the most accurate and objective of all on this thread.
I’ve seen EVERY video and EVERY angle available to MotoGP video pass. You are wrong. Rossi pushed him out. There is no debate about it.
Obviously there is a debate about it. The latest video clearly shows Marquez choosing to go wide of his own volition, then he ducks back in, accelerates and drops straight onto Rossi’s leg.
There is debate among us ravel, but not to the people with the most information making the decision and denying the appeals. The few articles from motojournalists that have been posted thus far have all come to the same conclusion.
The “latest” video does not give you the best angle at all. Rossi clearly pushed Marquez out. What you see is this video everyone is clinging to is Marquez trying to turn in to avoid running off the track and Rossi having none of it. The only person arguing otherwise is Rossi. Even Rossi’s team was luke-warm to his position.
The video clearly shows Marquez choosing to run wide on his own. Rossi was nowhere near him when Marquez first veered well off the racing line(s).
The video offers the perfect angle of the entire sequence, and we don’t know whether Race Direction ever saw this video. If they had, there would be no way to pin this crash on Rossi. All the “he kicked me!” nonsense goes out the window, and, in fact, proves Marquez to be lying.
Totally agree with VLJ
“Intentionally running wide” happens all the time in passing – the passer is late on the brakes, dives under the rider being passed, goes wide, and the passed rider has to slow down to keep from running into the back of the passer. This wasn’t all that different, except that instead of backing off like he should have, MM leaned into VR and made himself crash.
As EZMark and Provologna have already concluded, this video…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKiMMANG5fU
…proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Marc is lying. There was no kick, and, once again, Marc was the instigator. Marc ran way wide on purpose, and, for the second time in the race, Rossi looked at him as if to say, “Wtf are you doing?”
At their reduced speed, Marc had all sorts of room. Instead, he accelerated and leaned straight into Valentino, knocking himself down. Again.
I don’t know whether Marc intended to take a dive in an attempt to get Valentino penalized. That may have been his plan. The fact that he did it at such a slow speed and well removed from the racing line sure does make it look mighty suspicious. He knew it would be a no-big-deal low-speed lowside, and he also knew no one was behind them to collect him.
Regardless, this video proves Rossi’s penalty should be revoked and Marques should be penalized the necessary number of licensing points to force him to start from the back of the grid. Marquez has ran into people too many times, and this sort of crap should not be rewarded.
If you don’t see a kick in that video, you are willfully blinded by a bias towards Rossi.
I’m a Rossi fan. I’d love to see it another way but it’s plain to see that he spent that whole turn lining himself up to put Marquez down. No responsible racer trying to “race” would spend as much effort looking away from the direction he was going.
This is the sequence of events, immediately prior to physical contact, and I challenge anyone to contradict it:
MM is behind and L/outside of VR, w/approaching R turn.
MM slowly overtakes VR.
During overtake, MM slowly and methodically leans his entire upper torso R, far over and away from his bike, leading w/his head.
MM’s torso lean away from his bike causes MM’s head intersects/physically strike VR’s L knee
VR’s knee extends from his bike, pushing the striking/offending object (MM’s head) away from the knee. VR’s L boot does not leave its foot peg.
MM crashes.
Persons contradicting the above narration either deny the clear video content or have some other unknown and unknowable motivation.
Below is analysis/conclusion, which can be debated, while I don’t think the above narration can be debated: MM’s torso lean and head extension looks absolutely 100% intentional to hit their target, VR’s knee. In effect, MM himself committed the violation Dorna convicted VR of doing. If you disagree, please explain to readers the exact purpose of MM’s torso lean and head extension into VR’s knee.
Certainly, w/VR’s bike clearly blocking MM”s path turning R into the approaching R turn, MM’s torso lean and head extension can not associated with the turn and subsequent lean: they were barely moving at that time.
Of all VR’s body parts, VR’s knee location maximized chances of MM’s bike hiding his apparently intentional strike from fan and video view.
How and why VR ended up R/inside of MM relative to the approaching R turn. Just prior to where I started the above narration, MM is outside and looks to intentionally slow down. You can see MM’s torso momentarily go erect. This looks extremely suspicious to me, as if MM had scripted everything that subsequently happened.
Till MM owns up to his treachery and stealing #10 from VR, I’ll never have any respect for him in his profession. Honda should be ashamed they hired him (I know, laugable, but I had to say it).
You are obviously not paying attention to the sequence of events as can be clearly observed in EZMark’s video I re-posted. Rossi’s foot is on the peg. He looks over at Marquez. Marquez decides that rather than back off or just continue on, nope, he’ll auger his bike into Rossi’s. His head and upper body hit Rossi’s leg, making it move. Marquez goes down, doubtless as a result of his brake lever hitting Rossi’s leg.
There was no kick. There was nothing remotely resembling a kick. A kick would be stupid anyway. You don’t kick down a MotoGP bike. Rossi certainly didn’t raise his foot high enough to kick the brake lever, Ninja style.
Ridiculous.
Marquez simply ran into Rossi and crashed, as he’s wont to do. That crash was 100% avoidable on Marquez’s part. He made it happen.
That video does not tell the story at all. The only way Marquez could have avoided contact is if he came to a complete stop or rode off the track. Marquez chose not to yield and had every right to as far as I am concerned. Rossi intentionally pushed him way out wide which is, regardless of what happened after that, a punishable offense.
Marquez had no (good) reason to be out there. He chose to run that wide. Rossi held the inside line, fair and square. Rather than follow Rossi or square off the corner and duck back beneath him, which would be anyone’s idea of normal racing tactics, Marquez inexplicably chose to run a mile wide, at which point Rossi slowed to give him another “Wtf are you doing?” look (he’d already given him one earlier in the race). Marquez easily could have avoided crashing or running off. Instead, he sat up, thought about it for a split-second, and decided to drive his bike and upper body straight into Rossi’s leg.
This is exactly what the video shows, and no other video to date comes close to being as illustrative as this one does. The fact that Rossi twice pulled up to look at/gesture to Marquez only furthers the point that Rossi thought Marquez was riding like an idiot.
Regardless, Marquez had a multitude of options, and he chose the only one that could lead to him ending up on the deck: running directly into Rossi from behind.
We’ve seen this movie before. It’s what Marquez does.
did Rossi have a legitimate reason for being that far wide in that corner, when he could have easily leaned in on a tighter line and avoided MM altogether?, or was his sole purpose (to which both he has his team manager admitted) for being out there was that his emotions got the better of him and he rode out to push MM wide and slow him down?
Rossi was off the throttle when he should have been on – and that is validated, not assumption – as he drifted out into Marquez’s line not just initially, but continuing to do so even as Marquez corrected to go wider. Rossi wasn’t anywhere near the race line when initial contact was made.
Not singling you out, Dave, but you’re flat out wrong.
I spent 20 years of my life on race tracks, from local club racing to AMA Superbike, and I can tell you that contact with other riders is a very common occurrence. The natural instinct whenever you sense another rider about to hit you, or you feel the contact, is to stick out whatever body part you can to protect your bike’s exposed parts. You use your elbows, shoulders and knees to fend off the contact. That’s what Rossi did when he got hit – and yes, Rossi got hit from behind, make no mistake.
Watch those videos and it’s absolutely clear that:
– By the time of the contact, MM had slowed down more than enough to clear Rossi and even cross back underneath him if he wanted to, which he obviously CHOSE not to do.
– MM then ACCELERATED straight into Rossi’s backside and leaned into him.
– There was actually PLENTY of room to Rossi’s left, with several feet of asphalt to spare.
– If you don’t believe me, the Race Director himself stated there was no “kick” involved, and MM’s assertion the Rossi had his leg extended, kicking out at his handlebars, is an absolute fabrication that’s been disproved by every camera angle they have.
Marquez is, in fact, the rider who initiated contact. There is no doubt in my mind whatsover that he could have avoided the collision, just as he could have in Argentina, at Assen, in Qatar, at Aragon, at Phillip Island, etc. etc… (Notice a trend at all here?)
If your issue is that Rossi dived underneath Marquez and then intentionally slowed down and drifted wide, and that’s what prompted the penalty, then yes, Rossi did do that. Now watch all the laps previous to that and count how many times MM did the exact same thing! His entire race consisted of dive-bombing Rossi, only to slow down and block Rossi’s exit. Rossi could have rammed him from behind on any of those occasions, but a normal person doesn’t do that.
Marquez clearly had the pace to run with the leaders and could have pulled away from Rossi at will. He made the decision to screw with Rossi instead. If you truly believe this was a legitimate “battle for third place” between two equally matched riders, you truly don’t understand how racing works.
Another point I’d like to make is that you need to watch MM’s body language when he arrives back at the pit. As he climbs off the bike, there’s no emotion, no arm-waving, no sign of “DID YOU SEE THAT?! ROSSI TOOK ME OUT!” None of that. He calmly struts into the pit box as if he’s thinking, “My work here is done”. Do you really think if he thought he’d been done terribly wrong by Rossi, that he wouldn’t be vehemently telling everyone in sight?
By now, everyone has pretty much made up their mind as to what they think happened and who’s at fault, so I’m sure I’m not going to change your mind. I just had to say something, because the ignorance throughout the internet today is just rampant.
I think the one thing just about everyone can agree on is, this is a huge black eye for MotoGP, and it’s a damn shame that such a great season is coming down to such a dismal and tainted conclusion…
+1
I would add that not only did Marquez not rant and rave back in his garage but that he didn’t even do the usual Cal Crutchlow thing of jumping up and down and waving his arms in frustration right there on the track.
Nope, Marc was as calm as a cucumber.
“Mission accomplished.”
Yep saw Marquez walk mutely to the back of the Honda garage
but after that Rossi road like a guilty man as well. Cruising instead of riding like a man possessed to catch Lorenzo. Instead of being 2.7 seconds back it went to something like 5 seconds back at the conclusion of the “incident” and 8 seconds back by the end of the race. Running free and clear of Marquez and with an open track you’d have thought he would have closed the gap somewhat not let it get wider.
It was all very strange to me, both Marquez’s and Rossi’s reactions after the incident.
Rossi explained that he knew Lorenzo was already unreachable by the conclusion of L’Affair Marquez.
Re: “Not singling you out, Dave, but you’re flat out wrong.”
No, I am not. If you saw the footage from Rossi’s on-bike camera you would see it differently. With space between the two bikes, Rossi raised his foot to Maq’s handlebar. It was clear to see and now it’s impossible to find. Dorna is protecting their lenient ruling from scrutiny to make sure all the players are in the last game.
I’m glad someone else saw that video. I was starting to think I imagined it.
Marquez is clearly a faster rider than everyone else in the paddock. He is also young and needs to understand that he doesn’t need to be the fastest all the time to win a championship. Rossi picked the wrong guy to try to headstuff. He should have been trying t get in Lorenzo’s head.
re: “Marquez is clearly a faster rider than everyone else in the paddock”
if he’s such a “scary talent” then how did Jay WALTZ by him like Cinderella (unchallenged) on lap 2…? I just rewatched the start to confirm my suspicion.
no, I bet if we see footage of Marc’s pitboard he was clearly being SHOWN when Jay was behind him and was also shown when Ross was behind him. it was only on the next lap (L3) that VR46 made his pass and then BOOM went the dynamite, Marc suddenly DECIDED to get all “scooby and scrappy doo” and start racing in the equatorial heat with FULL distance to go.
BOLLOX…!!!
this is something no rider with half a brain ever does, so I dare the kid, Alzamora, or Suppo to lie to my face and tell me that 213 burned off enough fuel in ONE LAP to come good and make Marc feel comfortable.
no, Marc made a CHOICE to dice with Ross on lap 3, just like he made a choice NOT to dice with Jay previously on lap 2. he could’ve “danced” with either of these 2 gentlemen, but with “malice aforethought” (ie. the full legal term) he picked Ross to be his partner.
The reality is any road racing fall can result in tragedy ….thousands of riders have walked away from a fall like the one Wayne Rainey had as an example.
Falls created intentionally by another rider, any other rider are unacceptable and a 3 point deduction from the Rossi points total was also unacceptable.
My initial thought: Rossi to only get the points for this race as if he finished 4th.
Now would favor: Two race suspension effective immediately = Rossi not in the final race this year and the first race next year.
>>>>>>
My Personal Views
Did I want Rossi to win the championship before this season: Yes
Do I still want Rossi to win the championship: Yes
Have I lost respect for the Rossi and the MotoGP governing body: Yes
>>>>>>
Rules of Thumbs: When in doubt make decisions based on the facts and potential outcomes… not those involved
I don’t think Rossi intentionally wanted to cause Marquez to crash, but he did intentionally push Marquez out, and this led to the events that caused the crash.
The penalty itself is actually pretty lenient considering, but the result of that penalty is hefty and therefore suitable. Barring a serious problem on the track or DNF for Lorenzo, Rossi’s chances are shot.
We agree…I do not think Rossi wanted to crash Marquez….but did not state this clear/concise like you did.
Marquez could have sustained a career ending injury due to the set of circumstances Rossi initiated “by intent” and as such I would have voted for….. “Two race suspension effective immediately = Rossi not in the final race this year and the first race next year.”
The penalty clearly shows the organizations’ desire to salvage what has been by far MotoGP’s most entertaining season in many years. If they punted their biggest star (Rossi), right or wrong, viewers would punish them badly for it.
Dave… your interpretation of the penalty is correct.
>>>>>>
I think we are setting a very low bar for MotoGP most entertaining season.
Yes, I watch every race just like you and many of us, and indeed there have been more exciting moments and happenings this year compared to the prior years, but in the end it usually only 2 to 4 bikes up front …and sometimes not all that tight together
Maybe a 3 race sprint shorter race distance format (6 to 7 laps each vs 20+ laps} to keep the bikes and racing closer.
Thanks for your post
The fact is that MM leaned into Rossi and made himself crash. This wasn’t a fall created by Rossi, it was a fall created by Marquex.
Marquez only had two choices at that point: leave the track or lean in to Rossi to try to force the turn. Obviously, Marquez chose not to yield. The fall happened when Rossi’s leg hit Marquez’s handlebar.
Wrong. He had two other choices. Since there was still plenty of room available, particularly considering how slowly they were going, he could have accelerated past Rossi on the outside. He’s done so many times before, in much tighter spaces. He also could have tapped his brakes and ducked back beneath Rossi.
How you figure his only options were to run off the track or hit Rossi is beyond me. He had the entire track available to him.
I will give you that he could have possibly tapped the brakes and went behind, possibly, but I think you are wrong about the accelerating past Rossi on the outside. Rossi still had the cut off angle and the turn was quickly turning back to the right. You can see this easily from the helicopter shot. It was decision time for MM before running off course. He could have stopped, possibly hit the brakes and went behind, but I think those were his only non contact options as Rossi had him blocked from the front/outside.
They were going so slowly that he was in no danger of being run off the track. It’s not as if Rossi was going to run into him and drive him off the track, and it’s not as if Marc didn’t have the option of simply letting Rossi roll on by. And that’s all they were doing at that point: slowly rolling. Marquez can make his bike dance on the head of a pin, when he wants to. Give him an opening of only two feet at 180 mph, he’ll breeze through it in his sleep. He’s done exactly that, countless times. For a rider of his skills, on a bike with the handling and braking capabilities of his Repsol Honda, and at the crazily slow speeds they were traveling, finding open space here was mere child’s play.
And, of course, Marc always had the option of simply tapping the brakes to remain behind Rossi. He wouldn’t have needed to have come to a stop, or any such thing. Simply tapping the brakes would have been enough.
Rossi had no interest in creating a collision. The collision was entirely on Marc. Amid myriad easy solutions, he chose the only option that could have led to a crash.
Cut it any way you like, but nothing changes the fact that Rossi lost his senses and stopped racing to engage Marquez. Thus the penalty.
I hope rossi wil not win thus year.
What a race! And not so much what many of us prefer to have seen, it seems.
In reading many comments by team managers, journalists and fans, it’s clear the issue was multifactorial. And interesting!
I think my main disappointment is that the riders involved temporarily decided to race sideways or to the rear rather than race forward. The smart and sportsmanlike move would have been to remain more calm (like Dani said in the post-race interview), look for an opening ahead on track and pin it. If either one had done that, it would have shown the truth about the other: had the great Valentino Rossi actually lost his cool? was the talented MM really a petulant whippersnapper? Instead, they both took the low road, with predictable results.
I’m disappointed in both of them, though not terribly surprised (indeed, I took this result into account when making my League prediction prior to the race). No question: this season has provided entertainment in spades!
Lets hope the non-forward-racing drama is set aside for the finale next weekend. Can’t wait!
Rossi penalized, sad but true, bogus move Vale. Marquez skates because screwing with another rider is not against the rules as long as no particular move is outside the rules, sad but true. Lorenzo wants a DQ on Rossi, that’s a championship winning way to the top. Stoner wants a DQ, no surprise there. Fans on both sides yelling foul. The whole thing is sour. The players are a flawed and tragic hero, a fast ambitious but smarmy rival, a dangerous and likely successor to greatest, a whiney and broken pretender and an organization that wants to keep everything under their control. A sad end to the season and maybe a career. I would have penalized Rossi race points and let racing take it’s course next race. Lorenzo vs Rossi head on. Valencia, winner take all. Clean the slate and let racing happen. And put Marquez at the back of the grid for being a putz. Only Rossi winning is glorious and even that is tinged with spite. Now I agree with Stoner, there is little joy left in Moto GP.
Has no-one noticed how Rossi comes to pass FROM BEHIND – MM is already ON HIS CORNERING LINE – and pulls the same crap MM has pulled just this year? Even assuming no ill intent, MM had the line – and VR barged in. Whatever happened, regardless, it was not going to be a clean pass.
BOO.
I am a huge VR46 fan and was really hoping for the championship – in fact, hoping he would put his stamp on it decisively, with clean victories over JL/no variables like weather etc – but as others have noted the comparisons to Schumacher (and, I would add, Senna) are spot on.
I was there, less than 100 meters from the incident. Marquez slowed down, Rossi didn’t speed up. That’s when Rossi looked up and allegedly said “what the f#@%?”. Marquez ran into Rossi, with plenty of room to brake or go around. There was no kick.
Marquez laid on several passes that simply were not gonna stick. You simply don’t do that over and over, unless you are intentionally interfering with a rider; which is seriously against the rules.
Unbiased, those are the facts; as I saw them live.
re: “There was no kick.”
exactly it was just a knee.
you can get it in your handlebar out on track…? or square in your nuts in parc ferme…? pick one.
I’ve watched several videos from several angles. You saw this from one angle. The big 2:
– The vid on the MotoGP site (at least the one that was up yesterday) – MM clearly has the line and Rossi barges in on it, period. What happens after that is basically Rossi’s fault for starting it
– The vid posted below that shows more detail about the actual contact. Yes MM hits Rossi with his head, but – as can be seen in the other video – he basically had to tighten his line or go off. And – as much as I dislike MM and agree that he’s often squidly, in this case, even if the contact was deliberate, it was honestly deserved and Rossi should have been the loser in this one. Again, since he started it.
Exactly the conclusion I came to from watching the videos. It was painfully obvious.
“– The vid on the MotoGP site (at least the one that was up yesterday) – MM clearly has the line and Rossi barges in on it, period. What happens after that is basically Rossi’s fault for starting it”
Watch this video (posted multiple times) again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKiMMANG5fU
Marquez was not on any kind of racing line. After another very close pass, at 4 seconds he lets up, goes wide to let Rossi through once again. Rossi’s WTF glares at Marquez show his repeated frustration. Rossi slows and goes wide with the intent on slowing Marquez and then trying to get a gap on him through the next corner.
This had been going on repeatedly the past 3-4 laps, with Marquez doing multiple bonzai passes – nearly causing contact and/or crashes – then deliberately slowing the pace. Rossi’s momentary lapse here was unfortunate but Marquez’ had been going on for a long time, “legal” or not.
The question is: why? Why is a racer with no chance at the championship deliberately targeting the season points leader to allow his fellow Spaniard to catch up. And not just in this race, either. Totally tactless and disgusting behavior resulting in the ruination of one of the best MotoGP/GP seasons of all time. Even if Marquez’ bogu tactics did not break the rules they’ve certainly damaged MotoGP for a long time.
I spent all day thinking Rossi had punked Marquez. The I saw this angle of the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKiMMANG5fU
Re-read Marquez’ quote. He said “Then he kicked out at me, knocking my brake lever, and I crashed.”
Marquez is lying, plain and simple. Rossi shucked him off after Marquez headbutted Rossi in the leg and crashed in the process.
I just regained all the respect I had lost for Rossi this morning and I have lost that respect for Marquez.
Wow! Outstanding, fantastic angle, thank you! I almost can not believe how different is that view vs. everything I saw prior. I would echo every one of your sentiments.
Having said that, let me be Devil’s advocate for a moment:
What is possibility the video is altered? (I won’t say “doctored” for obvious reason.)
The video looks legit, totally. I can believe what a spoiled little losing punk is MM! MM pulled a Tom Brady on our hero VR.
Correction: Can “not” believe…
In that vid MMs head does hit Rossi knee, but then Rossi kicks out at MM hiting his Brake lever so Marquez isnt lying at all.
I was hoping Rossi would win win the championship but now i dont think he deserves it.
I reread MM quote and he does not mention anything about head-butting VR’s leg that started the whole thing. And he says VR kicked out at him. To me it looks like VR shucked him off after getting his leg knocked off the peg by MM. I don’t know if I would call that being “kicked out at”. Finally, I don’t see VR reaching out with his leg and hitting MM’s brake pedal. If you ask me, MM is lying, VR is not.
The start of the particular crash incident was the line Rossi took. Which had no relationship with the actual corner they were approaching. I think that Rossi’s intention was to actually stop MM, something which he has loosely alluded to. Which you can’t do, even if someone is annoying you.
Watch the video again. Marquez purposely went wide, he even sat up and slowed down. Rossi looked at him like “what the hell are you doing?” Then Marquez dove down into Rossi, apparently trying to make him crash but it backfired.
Marquez is a lying little punk.
+1, Marquez clearly sat up and slowed down. This video proves Rossi’s version of events is the honest one.
Disagree that he “purposely went wide.” They are clearly dicing and he simply ended up on a wider line (and clearly not the fastest one).
I doubt any racer that is racing is actually thinking about things in this fine of detail…if I’m wrong I’m wrong but I have the doubts….
Rossi pushed Marquez all the way to the outside of the corner. Rossi was off the throttle intentionally slowing down and moving into Marquez’s path all the way to the end of the track. There is no denying this. Even if Marquez did not come off the bike, this is enough to get the penalty.
Rossi’s leg comes up as they make contact, and it hits Marquez’s arm/handlebar, and the crash follows. I don’t think forcing the crash was intentional, but the penalty was already earned just by forcing Marquez wide regardless, so any argument about it is moot anyway.
Good video. I’d like to see the helicopter shot that Rossi mentioned.
I think race directors will look at this angle seriously, it makes some serious sense
ya’ll seem to be ignoring the fact that Rossi took them both way off the racing line and slowed dramatically pushing Marquez to the edge of the track. agree that instead of trying to turn in, Marquez should have stood it up an headed for the blacktop outside that turn, squared it off and chased down Rossi. On the punk scale, I would give Rossi a 10 and Marquez a 6. MotoGp is the biggest loser in this whole thing and can’t believe the amount of crap thrown at Lorenzo.
re: “I spent all day thinking Rossi had punked Marquez. The I saw this angle of the video.”
I just want to go on record as saying some didn’t require ANY extra video to come to your determination. the good sense God gave cat was all that was required.
If you watch the helicopter view, I think that you would change your analysis. Marquez turned into Rossi because he was out of room. Marquez would have needed to come nearly to a full stop or ride off the track to avoid Rossi completely. Marquez turned into Rossi to try to get Rossi to turn in (or maybe he just expected Rossi to finally turn in). Rossi’s leg came up and hit Marquez’s arm/handlebar (unintentionally I think), and the crash immediately followed.
That’s how it appears to me too Jeremy. Like I said I think it was Rossi intention to run MM into the grass to teach him a lesson.
I did think it was a strange line for MM to take thru that turn and Rossi as well. The tire slide marks from other riders certainly shows a tighter line. With MM going that wide it certainly seems like the perfect opportunity for Rossi to cut it tight and get some distance on the slower moving MM? Instead of slowing down to deal with Marquez he should have been head down chasing Lorenzo. He not only lost ground dealing with MM, he also didn’t ride like a man possessed after the incident and actually lost additional time to the front two, even though at that point he had a clear track and could have put in some stellar laps all alone.
I still can’t understand what motivation MM would have for sabotaging Rossi’s championship? What does he care who wins the Championship if it’s not him? But then again I am not privy to MM’s thinking on the matter.
Bottom line is the only thing sabotaged by Rossi’s move was his own chance at a Championship. Shame, I was pulling for him.
Marquez doesn’t have any motivation for sabotaging Rossi. And if the Spanish conspiracy theory had any validity to it, Marquez could have really hurt Rossi’s chances by NOT passing Lorenzo for the win at Phillip Island.
I like Rossi and would have loved to see him win his 10th. I still would like to see him win his 10th, but he doesn’t deserve it this season.
I am a big Rossi fan but he made stupid comments leading into the Sepang race and rode like a punk in it. I lost a lot of respect for him. He deserves to lose the championship.
re: “I am a big Rossi fan but he made stupid comments”
sticks and stones.
Norm: You missed the rest of Gary’s line: “and (Rossi) rode like a punk in it.” There is no defending Rossi’s blatant slow done, blocking, running MM wide. He’s guilty. He tainted the race and the championship. As a fan I wish it weren’t true. Regardless of MM’s motives, Rossi had to beat him on the track. He ended up beating himself.
Bottom line, this just sucks. It sucks for Rossi, obviously, but it also sucks for Lorenzo, who, through no fault of his own, will now win a tainted, annoyingly unsatisfying championship. Sure, when the checkered flag falls he’ll go into his usual fist-pumping frenzy. He’ll probably even go full-on Cirque du Soleil again on the podium. He’ll do his part and act overjoyed, and overcome with exhaustion.
And it will all be but a perfunctory facade. While winning the title beats getting a sharp stick in the eye, this will nonetheless feel very hollow. This is no way to win the championship, not the way this season was playing out, and he knows it.
A “War and Peace” season for the ages, ruined by a “50 Shades of Meh” ending.
Faaaaantastic.
Crap.
Race Director Mike Webb comments:
“The decision is that Race Direction has imposed three penalty points on Valentino Rossi for irresponsible riding, that is, deliberately causing contact. Deliberately running wide in a corner in order to try and force another rider off line. The result was a crash and so it’s irresponsible riding causing a crash and for that we have imposed three penalty points on Rossi.
“It looked like we were going to have a great race, but unfortunately it ended in an incident that’s controversial.
“I can give you a general feeling rather than a quote from our hearing, because obviously it a closed door hearing. Marc explained that he was riding his normal race waiting for the tyres to feel good and going fast when he could and slowing down when he had to.
“Valentino was of the opinion that Marc was deliberately slowing the pace of the race down and doing so unfairly. We listened to both riders; our opinion was that there was some fault on both sides, but as far as the rulebook goes Marquez did not make any contact, did not break any rules as such, but we feel that his behaviour was causing problems to Rossi who reacted. Unfortunately he reacted in a way that is against the rules.”
some Lin Jarvis Yamaha Team Manager comments:
So whilst, if you analyse the race in details today and you study every move that Marc did, there was nothing illegal about any single move,
our job as a team is to defend the interest of our riders, so whilst we cannot deny that Valentino’s move was not the sort of move we want to see in MotoGP
Finally that resulted in an overflow of frustration by Valentino and that boiled over and he made a move that was an incorrect move by taking Marc out to the side of the track.
I am very sad that the incident resulted in the crash of another rider. I think that Valentino was found, shall we say, the one in the race that did a manoeuvre that was not legal. This was finally the result and that’s why he was penalised.
“I am not defending his actions. This is why he received the penalty as it was judged that this was not a move within the rules of racing.”
Many interesting comments on the subject put forth by all.
To those of you claiming that Marquez doesn’t belong in the middle of the Rossi/Lorenzo championship fight, I say that is ridiculous. Marquez isn’t a backmarker. Winning the championship means more than just beating Lorenzo. There are other guys to finish in front of as well, and Marquez is one of them. And given Rossi’s comments this past week, he should have expected no quarter from Marquez. I know Rossi would have liked for Marquez to forego the passing for a few laps and try to catch up to Lorenzo, but then perhaps it wasn’t the wisest strategy for “master of mind games” to antagonize one of the most formidable racers on the track.
Marquez’s passes were masterful and aggressive, and Rossi’s were no different. That is what hard racing looks like. You pass, and you try to shut the door to any line your opponent might try to take to get through on you. I don’t believe Rossi’s intention was to cause Marquez to crash, but he did intentionally push him to the outside considerably. Marquez corrected his line to avoid contact as Rossi pushed him out. They were so far out and the angle was such that Marquez either had to lean in to try to force Rossi to turn or go off the track, and I believe the latter is what Rossi was wanting.
I don’t buy Rossi’s story that he was just trying to slow Marquez down because that is a pointless move. The only result would be that both Rossi and Marquez slow down for that corner after which Marquez would have still been on him like glue. Rossi’s frustration got the better of him, and he deserved the penalty.
“To those of you claiming that Marquez doesn’t belong in the middle of the Rossi/Lorenzo championship fight, I say that is ridiculous.”
You’re misunderstanding. Those who are saying this (myself included) are believing that MM is in the middle of that fight and trying to affect an outcome. If we believed he were simply fighting for the highest step on the podium, no one would have issue with that as long as he was doing it in a sportsmanlike manner.
Racers becoming drama queens is a sure fire way to gain fan interest.
It seems to me what is driving this is that Moto GP races have suddenly become closer at the front. Parades being replaced by close racing. Close racing with these incredible machines and their other worldly traction, acceleration and braking leaves no margin for error and little room for emotion.
I’ve not seen the incident so have no opinion and really nobody will ever really know either riders motives and intent. The thing I do know is that Marquez had nothing to lose. While everyone has been hoping for more close racing in Moto GP the reality might be that close NASCAR type racing in Moto GP could get very very ugly. Great for fans, but ugly.
You people on Rossi’s side are delusional. Rossi raced JLo just as hard back when Lorenzo was trying to wrap up his title. Remember Motegi??? And Jarvis cringing because Rossi was chopping JLo of at every corner? And that was his own teammate!!! Rossi finally lost his cool, plain and simple. He has gotten away with everything in the past and he just pushed it too far this time. The comparison to Schumacher is a good one. Master rider that thinks he deserves to win on his own terms – damn the consequences.
+1
MM had crashed into VR quite a few times this season (and into a few other riders for that matter) but never got penalized. I think Rossi had had enough.
While I admire MM’s speed and lean angles I can’t honestly like him for the exact same reason I couldn’t like Simoncelli (RIP).
Good Gravy this has sparked alot of debate, more than the republicans and democrats…
No sense in arguing what the ruling is or what has happened
Now, what about the last race…Rossi will of course be running Ricky Bobbi style (either first or last), and passing MM will be next to impossible without conflict..
we will have to see
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2015/Oct/151025rydernotes.htm, I agree with Mr. Ryder
I agree.
I don’t. Rossi clearly kicked Maq’s front end. There was space between the bikes when he did it.
Clarification on the point penalty: these are penalty points, NOT a deduction of championship points. The real penalty will be starting from the back of the grid in Valencia. If the top-5 don’t pull over and wait, he’ll never see them again this season.
Rossi clearly did not kick Marc’s bike. That’s just pure silliness.
If you look at the video, there’s contact THEN Rossi’s leg moves. Seems legit to me. Doesn’t make his pushing MM out to the edge AOK, but I don’t see that Rossi kicked him.
Watch this video Dave. Marquez turned in on Rossi Looks to me like Marquez was trying to take Rossi out and it backfired. There was no kicking. Rossi shucked Marquez off as he was already crashing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKiMMANG5fU
I agree 100%. It is absolutely crystal clear in Mark’s video that MM is 100% at fault. MM clearly head butts VR’s L leg, followed (as would anyone) by VR simply pushing away the offending object, being MM’s head.
Also, as MM enters and continues through the R turn immediately before the contact and crash, I distinctly see what appears to be MM letting off the gas, and briefly making himself more vertical, which is might reflect MM’s plan to do exactly what he did, which is open the door for VR on the inside, which VR accepts, followed by the contact and MM’s crash.
One could posit that MM conspired the entire incident to pan out exactly as it did (though I’m less sure of this than I am that it was 100% solely MM’s fault).
re: “It is absolutely crystal clear in Mark’s video”
for the record it’s not “Mark’s video”. it’s the video sitting on MotoGP.com and on everyone’s DVR. Mark’s Video is where I used to rent me porn on Beta.
I completely disagree. I watched it many times from as many different angles available through my MotoGP video pass. As far out as Rossi pushed Marquez on the turn, Marquez was left with the option go of the track or to turn in an attempt to force Rossi to turn. Marquez turned in, and Rossi’s leg came up and hit Marquez’s arm/handlebar (which I don’t think was intentional.) The crash clearly came after.
I did watch it, and several other angles, including Rossi’s on-bike footage (that is nowhere to be found now.) which gave a clear view between their bikes. He kicked his handlebar. It chould not be any clearer.Rossi forced everything in that turn to happen the way it did.
I haven’t lost any respect for VR. In fact, I’m still rooting for a long shot championship win for VR. We all know he’s not going to win the next race, but anything can happen in racing and he still may come out ahead and take the championship. Still hope it happens for him. BTW, I don’t judge a rider for one bad move that was obviously provoked, that isn’t how I judge a rider’s season, or his entire racing career.
The biggest joke here is the DORNA, which – what surprise – is Spanish, and the penalty given to Rossi.
Marquez has been bumper railing and crashing out his opponents for years now with not one SINGLE penalty whatsoever.
Marquez needs an urgent and mandatory eyesight check – preferably not in Spain – since he has now proven countless times that he can’t see, perceive or detect some of his opponents on the racetrack under certain circumstances.
If I were Yamaha, I’d skip the final race in Valencia and the DORNA could kiss my A@@ for the 2016 Moto GP championship if they don’t revoke their penalty decision.
Been on this train for a while now. No theres no collusion here at all!
Is devastated too strong of a word? I lost a hero today and I just feel totally dejected. What a sad, shameful day. At this moment I feel like Rossi should hang up his leathers.
You better watch the race again. MM had no business putting himself in the middle of that fight between VR and JL. He got kicked to the curb which is exactly where he belongs when he’s 100 points down.
What a retarding thing to say TF. MM is employed by HRC to do his best and finish as high up as he can in EVERY single race.He was fighting for the last spot on the podium, fairly and squarely. It’s Rossi that sullied the sport this time.
Just like you want a back marker to keep off the line in a regular race. You want the guy who has no chance at the title to stay out of the way of the guys racing for the title. Especially the second to last race of the season and the title on the line. This isn’t race one in Qatar with the season fresh and up for grabs for anyone. This is MM not even a blip on the championship radar for the season being the little back marker on the racing line when he shouldn’t be…
Bingo.
“Just like you want a back marker to keep off the line in a regular race. You want the guy who has no chance at the title to stay out of the way of the guys racing for the title.”
Nonsense. If that were the case, then why don’t we just put Lorenzo and Rossi on the track by themselves? Rossi and JLo are the only championship contenders, but they aren’t the only ones fighting for the race win. They fight for points among the grid, not each other.
Not the point at all to have just Rossi and Lorenzo go at it.
So the back markers should be allowed to stay on the race line and mess with the leaders that are coming back around? Cause that what Marquez was doing only on the championship title level.
A back marker isn’t going to win a race if he’s being lapped by the guys at the front. Same as Marquez isn’t going to win the title this year because he’s so far back in points…
Marquez has every right to fight for a position on the podium each and every race regardless of what the championship points count is. Period. Back markers have no hope of winning a race. Marquez does. The back marker analogy is a fallacy in this case.
I know some of you guys (some of whom I have a lot of respect for) are convinced that there is intentional interference in an effort give the championship to Lorenzo, but that Spanish conspiracy hypothesis doesn’t hold much water. Did Marquez give Rossi a harder time this race than he might have otherwise. Maybe so, but then Rossi did beg for it. That is what happens when a mind game (if that is what Rossi was trying to do during the week prior to the race) backfires.
Then you’d best cast your (obviously poor) memories back to 2010 when Rossi was doing his best to punt his very own team mate off the track at Montegi when he had absolutely no chance of winning the title Lorenzo was leading.Can’t have your cake and eat it too sorry boys.
Absolutely correct!!!!
According to my memory (google) Lorenzo had absolutely no chance of losing the championship at the time as he had a 70 point lead over Pedrosa who was injured. It’s also a stretch to believe that VR was running interference to help Pedrosa. You may want to look for a better analogy.
re: “At this moment I feel like Rossi should hang up his leathers”
draconian response. waaay harsh.
A race is about getting and staying in front of another, and doing it by the rule book. MM’s riding was within the rule book (the rule book can’t and doesn’t look into the head of the riders). VR’s riding broke the rules (VR’s boss Jarvis admits this). The only thing left is to decide the penalty. The correct penalty (a DQ) instantly pretty much closes the door on VR’s championship and makes Valencia meaningless for anybody but Kent and Olivera. Dorna weren’t going to do that! Sad day for MotoGP all around.
I totally agree with you.
Mark made clean passes. He played by the rulebook. Rossi did not. There are a lot of Marquez haters in this forum for sure. But Race Direction did not penalize Mark because there is no rule that says Mark is not allowed to mess with Rossi’s championship race if that’s what he did.
Loris Baz screwed Tom Sykes out of the World Superbike Championship last year by finishing ahead of his teammate against team orders. He knew he was moving to motogp and just wanted to make a final statement. I totally disrespect Baz for that. But he didn’t break any rulebook rules.
Mark, if he in fact was playing with Rossi, did not break the rules.
Rossi should have just focused on Lorenzo instead of agitating Mark with his comments on Thursday. The announcers even said that.
Casey Stoner after the race said that any other rider who did what Rossi did would have been black flagged. I agree with him.
For the record, I’m a Rossi fan first and Marquez fan second. But what Rossi did was wrong. And it was stupid to distract himself from focusing on Lorenzo. Rossi may have cost himself the championship. I’m sad for this as I totally love him.
Is clearly intentionally head butting a rider’s L knee within the rules? That’s exactly what this video proves MM did, which resulted in VR pushing away the offending object (MM’s clearly oatmeal-filled head) by lifting his offended L knee.
VR’s L boot never looses contact with the foot peg.
Till this video is proven to be edited, MM’s name is mud for eternity in my book.
Enjoy, VR detractors and MM defenders: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKiMMANG5fU
re: “A race is about getting and staying in front of another, and doing it by the rule book”
wait, do you mean the ever changing joke of a “moving goalpost” that is the MotoGP rule book…?
yeah, I keep a copy in the bathroom next to throne. when the toilet paper runs out in this house (and it does) we’re good, we just reach out and tear out a page. fresh as a daisy.
I have a lot of trouble with the idea that Marquez let JLo through. It’s no secret that the Honda is more difficult to ride this year and Marquez has struggled with front end issues. While he is very, very good he’s not perfect and can make mistakes. And why isn’t anyone talking about the two Ducatis swamping Lorenzo at the start and trying to hold him up so rossi can get away. Two Italians on Italian bikes….I’d believe that before any of rossi’s kooky theories. rossi looked back 3 times to see where Marquez was and deliberately pushed him out to the edge of the track. If he hadn’t have done that there would have been no discussion of whether he kicked Marc’s bike or not. Also, rossi should know that there are unintended consequences of making such moves (read Simoncelli). If rossi didn’t want to stoke the fires of competition with Marquez then he should have kept his whiny little yap shut. It’s time for rossi to retire or Yamaha to suspend him for that kind of crap.
Neither Honda nor the FIM have ever suspended Marquez for his reckless, unsafe riding. There’s no way Yamaha suspends Rossi, particularly when Rossi had slowed to such an extent that Marquez was in zero physical danger. Marc easily could have avoided contact there. Rossi gave him all the space he needed, unlike the various instances when Marquez just drilled people at speed.
The most (least?) curious aspect of this entire affair is the three-point licensing penalty levied upon Rossi. Not one point. Not two. Nope, three points, or the precise number needed to force Rossi to the back of the grid in the all-important championship finale. Far more damaging than any reduction in championship points would have been, this specific penalty all but hands Lorenzo the title.
One would have to be Pollyanna crazy to assume this penalty and the effect it has on the championship is a mere coincidence.
Ken, Marquez made several dangerous moves on Rossi before the incident….The only thing Rossi is guilty of is taking Marquez wide obviously in frustration to the many close calls with Marquez…Marquez obviously accelerated into Rossi hitting his leg…Just watch the slow motion it’s clear that Marquez made the contact….I mean just how many times has Marquez taken himself out this year ? This was another one, Marquez should not of got on the gas there and he goes down again.
Should Rossi have taken him wide? Probably not but the way Marquez was riding it looked like he was going to take someone out eventually.
rossi had as many questionable, aggressive moves as Marquez but the two kickers are that rossi started the whole thing in the press conference with his goofy tin-foil hat theories and during the race he deliberately looked behind to make sure of where Marc was before he pushed him wide. Telemetry will show that rossi was off the throttle when he should have been on it and his speed didn’t justify taking the wider line he took, he could have tightened up easily. He also has a loooong history of talking sh?t and creating problems but up til now he’s been able to get away with it. It was rossi, whose games on the track that caused the contact, Marquez was on the throttle as he would have been normally. If you’re gonna set it up like rossi did then you deserve a lot worse than he got. This is especially disturbing after the whole Simoncelli hand wringing (he was a second rate rider at best who took huge risks). If rossi was so disturbed about it then he should have let him by on the straight and just followed Marc. This would have demonstrated without a doubt whether Marc was trying to hold him up and made rossi look like the good guy. Oh wait, he didn’t think the whole thing through before the race? Hmmm, maybe he was just playing his stupid little mind games after all and just expected Marc to roll over. How naive vale must be to think that tactics that worked when he was 22 will work when he’s 36. We all know better.
“tin foil hat theories”….Beautiful!!!!
Ken, relax.
Wow, what a race! Disappointing to see Rossi pull that stunt, even if Marquez was making it difficult. No one should purposely take another rider out, and that to me looks like what happened. The penalty for Rossi is about what I expected. It is a little surprising he was able to keep the points for third. No points, and a suspension for the next race, maybe to harsh? I think so. Going to be real tough for the him now. Lorenzo is looking pretty good about now. Congratulations to Pedro for a fine ride. This last race should be real interesting…..no predictions here!
Get serious. No one comes almost to a stop and waits for the trailing rider to pull alongside so he can give him the stink eye, not if they’re trying to take the guy out. If that was his intent, he would have maintained his speed and driven him out. Instead, he rolled off the throttle and just looked at the guy. Very safe move.
He was saying, “Wtf are you doing?” It was also the second time in the race that Rossi looked back and gestured at him.
It went down exactly as Rossi described.
re: “Disappointing to see Rossi pull that stunt”
disappointing to see Marcus pull the stunt that came BEFORE that stunt.
dare I say someone might be having trouble with their “linear” thinking…? the term is known as “Chain of Causation” and it’s only what the FAA uses to solve the riddle of CRASHED AIRLINERS. I mean if it’s good enough for the FAA (ie. the Gub’mint) should it not be good enough for our everyday lives…?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chain%20of%20causation
Norm, I see you correcting guys all the time on here and you seem like a pretty respected guy on this site. And I normally agree with you and enjoy reading your comments.
But if we want to talk about who started it, let’s look at who Marquez looked up to: Rossi. Marquez grew up watching Rossi stuff Sete Gibernau in the final corner with extreme contact, sending Sete into the gravel and and various other extremely unsafe and aggressive moves over the years to Biaggi and Stoner.
Rossi always gets away with it. Why wouldn’t Mark think he could get away with aggressive riding too?
Rossi finally got caught stuffing another rider.
I’m a Rossi fan first and I’ve drank a lot of Rossi Kool-aid along with everyone else over the years. It’s been an amazing ride.
I just think that Marquez wasn’t doing anything he didn’t see Rossi doing as Mark was growing up. So Rossi started it long before Mark ever threw a leg over a MotoGp bike.
re: “I just think that Marquez wasn’t doing anything he didn’t see Rossi doing as Mark was growing up.”
dare I say these are things he saw and processed with a CHILD’S MIND not with the mind of an adult. he’s in the adult world now, and when we look at him, sure we as fans PHYSICALLY see someone on outward appearance that appears to be full grown…?
but don’t be confused by that, he’s still negotiates everything around him armed with nothing more than that same “child mind”. this I contend is the root of all of his problems, be they on track or off.
this parallels EXACTLY everything we see with our teenagers and any other young adult around us that gets into trouble. unfortunately, we (or they) immediately THRUST themselves into adult situations with a brain that LAGS horribly behind their physical ages.
now the reason their problems tend to start going away after age 25 isn’t magic…? it’s because if they’re lucky enough to be ALIVE after getting their asses kicked by the life in that 7 year “transition period” between age 18 and 25, the brain matures and catches up to their physical ages.
at that point their rationalizing and decision making becomes no different than us “altacockers” in our 60’s, 50’s, 40’s, etc. if you arrive at 30 and you’re still doing dumb shit…? God help ya. see entry for Anthony Gobert.
It’s called Karma. VR has gotten away with murder, time after time. He has always been the pretty boy of Moto GP. Well, he is not the guy he used to be and today he had a taste of his own medicine. He wanted to send a message to Marquez, f__k off. I don’t think he intended to make him crash, but the fact is that he did crash because of his action. What a stupid move for possibly the most talented rider of all times. Now is time to be a man, apologize, and own it, that is what champions do. He is now threatening with a now show on the last race, weak.
IMHO last week and more this week, Marquez was not riding forward in the battle to win the race. He was riding to battle and spite Rossi. At one point, Rossi turned and waved at Marquez to ride forward, but Marquez kept passing and blocking. Marquez has earned his nickname “the smiling assassin” and brought race control along with him. But Rossi is not a victim. He has played the game hard and this is the outcome. Will Rossi take this in stride and race again or ride around next year doing farewell dog and pony shows to a sad and bitter end. Perhaps he wil say there is nothing left, time to go, and win or lose in Valencia, retire. Stoner must be feeling schadenfreude as the joy goes out of Rossi’s career. Moto GP can get new fans and I hope Rossi can bring himself out this horrible moment, but if it is just a slow an miserable end to his career, I don’t want to watch.
MM is entitled to run his own race. It is up to VR to run the race faster than MM. He couldn’t. MM gave as good as he got. VR was baited, fell for it and is now on the brink of a championship loss. Ask yourself, did VR close the gap to JL post incident ?
Lots of questions re VR’s sportmanship. Doesn’t always play with a straight bat; Biaggi hinted at it. CS and JL exposed it. VR is still the GOAT because of his cross generational winning percentages, but he’s like Schumacher. Cracks under pressure.
Marquez will only suffer from this trust me.Rossi’s legacy is
secure as GOAT and MM will look like the petulant child he is..
I strongly disagree. Prior to this video I thought MM may have intentionally dropped back from #2 to diminish VR’s chance at his tenth crown. This interview with MM convinced me I was dead wrong: http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2015/10/25/sepangclash-marquez-reacts/188523
In the full race video I don’t recall them showing JL’s pass of MM.
Now I believe MM did not intentionally draw back from #2, but rather he had handling problems with a full fuel tank, and he expected to compete later in the race. MM describes exactly what comprised Jorge’s pass, and I’m personally convinced MM’s dropping to epic battle with VR was totally legit.
It is not hyperbole to say the battle for #3 between MM and VR (maybe a dozen back and forth passes in 2-3 laps) were life threatening. Nobody including MM risks their life and limb and career (MM has about a dozen or more seasons ahead battling for the crown) only to keep VR from getting a tenth crown, thus making for one less crown needed to beat VR’s record.
MM is far too mature and intelligent for such ridiculous antics.
At the start of this race I wanted only VR to win the crown. Unfortunately, now I think VR’s pride got the better of him.
Lastly: earlier in the week, MM said, growing up as a child, he had VR’s poster on his wall. Soon after, VR said, if they could go back in time they might find out the story was not true. In effect, VR called MM a liar IFO cameras. France outlawed duels not many years ago. In olden days, MM would have been within his rights, if not obligated, to challenge VR to a duel for such accusation.
I lean toward the opinion now that the inevitable winner of the crown (JL) is the correct outcome.
re: “I’m personally convinced MM’s dropping to epic battle with VR was totally legit.”
not I says the blind man. same as Pi, i contend his RC213 had the speed to chase down both Jay and maybe even Dan. Honda’s should’ve finished that race P1 and P2.
but NOOOO someone decided they’d “hover” like so much Quad-Copter overtop P3 and see if they couldn’t get themselves dumped on their ass by VR46 for only the 2nd time this season. beware what you wish for I guess…?
Norm, I stand corrected and now agree with you, since viewing video posted by EZMark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKiMMANG5fU
Thank God for this video. VR detractors and MM defenders: your only hope is to prove this video is edited. Best wishes with that.
It is just a different angle, plain and simple. Watch it along with all of the other angles, and I don’t believe you would come to your current conclusion. Rossi tried with intent to push Marquez out, and Marquez, after correcting his line all the way to the outside of the turn, finally tried to push his way back in.
Rossi caused the incident, not Marquez. Plain and simple.
“MM is far too mature and intelligent for such ridiculous antics.” Are you kidding??!?! He’s the king of ridiculous antics…
The only petulant child here is Rossi, but that shouldn’t come as a surprise. His predilection for primadonna behaviour and childlike tantrums the moment he doesn’t get his way are the reason I have no respect for him whatsoever, despite his undeniable riding ability.
Starting from the back of the grid is far too lenient penalty for his behaviour, he should’ve been docked a couple of places as far as I’m concerned.
Rossi’s statements:
Rossi shares his views on the dramatic incident between him & Marquez at the Malaysian GP.
Movistar Yamaha’s Valentino Rossi addressed the world’s media after meeting with Race Direction to explain his views on the clash with Marc Marquez during the Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix:
Marc Marquez said you took your leg off and kicked him, was it a case of red mist?
“No Marquez knows that is not true, because it is very clear from the image, especially from the helicopter that I don’t want to make him crash. I just want to make him lose time and go out of the line and slow down because also this time, a lot worse than in Australia, he make his dirty game no? When I go wide, wide, wide, I slow down, we almost stop and I look at him to say, “F**K, what the f**k are you doing?”
After we touch and he touched with his handlebar on the right on my leg, and I lose the foot from the foot peg, but if you look at the image from the helicopter it is clear that when I lose the foot from the footrest Marquez had already crashed. So I don’t want to kick him. Also if you give a kick to a MotoGP™ bike, it don’t crash. It is not that you kick the bike; it is very heavy, like this, and he crash. But unfortunately we touched; he wanted to turn because I go very wide and I fell his handlebar on my leg her, on my thigh and I lose the leg on the foot peg. It is like this.”
What is your opinion on the sanction you have been handed?
“For me is not fair, also because like this, Marquez win his fight! His program is okay because he made me lose the championship. Especially for me the sanction is not good because I don’t want to make him crash purposefully, I just reacted to his behaviour. I didn’t kick him and I didn’t want to make him crash.
But you know, you don’t say nothing in the press Conference, maybe change something. But for me this is unfair; as I just want to fight for the championship with Jorge and the better man win. Like this it doesn’t happen.”
Is there anything that you regret?
“I don’t know, I don’t want to make him crash, but I had to try to do something. At that moment Jorge was already gone, but I’ve said everything.”
Do you think the Championship is over?
“It is not over, but this sanction cut my leg and make Marquez win.”
Q: Do you think the Championship is over?
(back of the grid at roundy round Valencia)
A: it’s over Johnny, it’s OVER…!!!
On the other hand, how cool will it be to see Rossi ride full-on balls-out in the final race? no holding back, no calculating, just pure Italian Red mist from the most competitive guy in the history of the sport. We’ll be treated to Nick Harris going apoplectic, per usual: “The DOCTOR is scything through the field like a hot knife through warm butter! VALENTINO ROSSI is showing the heart of a champion! I tell you, my panties are in a serious bunch!!”
~gurgle, splat~
And this will likely be the last time we ever witness such a spectacle from the GOAT.
Make it memorable, #46.
(And a bit of the ol’ rain in Spain come race day wouldn’t be such a bad thing, no?)
Yeah, all that and Dovisioso, Pedrosa, Marquez, Ianonni and Smith still finishing between him and Lorenzo therefore giving Lorenzo the title.
This was a horrible way for the season to conclude and Marquez is a little bitch.
Bad, bad, bad, all the way around.
Marquez did exactly what Rossi accused him of doing. After offering valet service to Lorenzo, letting him through so easily that I was almost surprised Marc didn’t stand on his pegs and cheer him on, #93 rode thereafter with the sole goal of slowing down Rossi. He did the same at Phillip Island.
As Norm G. mentioned, when a guy with the experience that Rossi has goes public with such a specific, detailed accusation, it’s 99.9% certain he’s right. He’s out there on the track with the guy. He can see what’s going on. He knows.
And now this. The final race was just handed to Lorenzo, and with it the championship.
For Marquez, it’s mission accomplished. If you don’t think so, ask yourself this one simple question. If Marc was in a close battle for the championship instead of having already been mathematically eliminated, and if he was fighting Dani or Jorge for the title, does any of this happen? Does he spend his entire race conspicuously fighting with and slowing down Rossi while allowing his rivals to clear off into the distance?
Of course not. He dispatches anyone in his way as soon as possible and races to the front, to clear track, and on to victory. That’s what he always does…when he’s in it to win it.
This was obvious. This was personal.
And so, too, it became personal for Valentino.
No, I don’t believe Valentino tried to make Marc crash, and he certainly didn’t kick Marc’s fork in an effort to make him crash, or any other such hysterical hand-wavy nonsense. What he did was slow way the hell down down to show his displeasure at what he knew Marc was doing yet again. In fact, earlier in the race Valentino had already given Marquez the “Wtf are you doing?” gesture. Same deal here. He knew Jorge was long gone, and he was fed up. He’d had enough. He was going to make a very obvious display of admonishment to Marc, right there on the track.
“You want to play these games? You want to make it this obvious? Fine. Screw you. I’ll park it right here in this corner and stare daggers at you, letting the entire world know in no uncertain terms what you’re doing.”
Yes, Rossi could have taken the high road and simply ridden on. He definitely should have done exactly that, in terms of the championship. And, sure, Rossi could pull off a miracle in Valencia and storm through the field from the back of the grid to ultimate glory, but unless Lorenzo has a mechanical DNF there is no way Valentino will be able to catch him…
…especially not in Spain.
You know…Spain. Spanish organizing body. Spanish race control. Four Spanish rounds. Spanish riders everywhere. No penalties for Marquez no matter how reckless he rides, no matter who he takes out, but let’s go ahead and make Valentino Rossi start the championship-deciding final race—against a Spaniard, in Valencia, natch—from the back of the grid.
“Si! Bueno!” ~uproarious laughter amid the clanking of glasses of sangria~
What a garbage way for what had been such a stellar championship battle to end.
Just saved me a whole lot of typing. Spot on.
Dorna HQs in Madrid, Repsol HQs in Madrid. Marquez, Lorenzo, Pedrosa all Spanish. Conspiracy? Nah…….
I could never wrap my head around the concept of a Spanish organizing body running a WORLD championship and having ALL the Japanese manufacturers playing their game.
It was the same-old same-old back in the late 80s, early 90s in WSBK. 250 cc displacement advantage to V2s? Sure. Add a 20 or 25 kilo weight advantage for good measure. Why not? Back then Ducs didn’t even have to use the cc advantage AND couldn’t make their bikes light enough to reach the min. allowed weight. RC30s were running their stock electric starters instead of adding more lead.
DORNA just made it clear what they want as an outcome. I say screw them. Bitter end to a spectacular season.
I haven’t liked MM since they changed the rules to allow him to compete on a factory 1 tier machine in his first year. MotoGP is a joke unfortunately it is the only racing venue that gets televised in the USA.
Marquez has a reputation for taking big risks on the track.
He had nothing to lose by being overly aggressive, and sadly nothing to gain except another point for his ego.
Rossi had everything to lose.
There was NO reason for Marquez to be so aggressive and the fact is Rossi already had position on him before he was trying to shove the bike around him on the outside. The way I see it, if Rossi had stayed on throttle it would have really pushed the kid off the track. By sitting up and closing throttle he was able to leave a little room for Marquez.
The kid took all the risk and got what he deserved!
Rossi should not have to start at the back of the next race and lose a championship because of this spoiled brat and his risky behavior on track!
In any other race Rossi would have called that a ” good battle”. i think it was all getting to him.
Race Direction in their decision said both riders were guilty but Rossi by slowing down so much and going so wide deliberately tried to run Marquez off the race course and that was very obvious to anyone watching I would think. i don’t think Rossi intended to crash Marquez but I do think he was going to run him into the grass as a message.
Congrats to Dani btw. Great ride. He showed ” I’m the fastest” Lorenzo who was fastest at that race and saved us from some stupid Lorenzo celebration.
poor sportsmanship on rossi’s part….. race direction should have black flagged Val…. no points scored this round…. smith should have been on the podium…. next round, fight for the championship continues…. totally poor sportsmanship on Val! chicken sh!t
100% in agreement. anybody else doing that would ave been in serious trouble, and he is lucky Marquez dd not get hurt.
Marquez obviously made some very dangerous moves at high speed on Rossi before hand and Rossi just slowed up took him wide….Looked like Marquez accelerated and hit Rossi and took himself out as usual.
I agree!
My thoughts exactly
I saw again the video again after reading your comment and this also looks extremely probably.
I Hope VR just rides the hell out of the last race and win the championship.
Alternatively JL can crash taking MM with him and Rossi change to “ride just for fun” mode.
I can imagine Sete Gibernau shaking his head while muttering “Vale, Vale, Vale.”
Haha! I agree. Rossi screwed Sete by smashing into him on the final corner years ago. And the Spanish Dorna didn’t penalize Rossi then. They needed Rossi. Now Rossi finally got penalized for his aggressive riding.
That was a dick move. Rossi better get some anger management consoling. If he gets 3 penalty points, why don’t they take it off his race points? This guy has created a lot of bad blood with this stupid move.
re: “That was a dick move”
the TOTAL D MOVE is when a backmarker ignores a blue flag when the race leaders come through battling for the win.
Marcus is almost a whopping 100 points out, just because he has a bike that allows him to run in the top 5 doesn’t mean he isn’t a “backmarker”.
Rossi called him out at the press conference on Thursday and MM obliged his request during the race. Just because Rossi stamped his feet and threw a temper tantrum, should everyone turn a deft cheek to unsportsmanlike conduct? Oh poor Rossi, somebody got back in his face and he buckled under the pressure. A racer is never a “backmarker” if he has the will to win, the desire to compete and the resolve to never give up. If I was MM, I’d have a burning desire to finish this dustup behind pit wall. Man-up Rossi, you just peed on your tarnished reputation.
And further more, 2 years ago MM was black flagged at Phillip Island because he missed a turn into the pits on the 10th lap and had to run another lap on shredded tires. MM got black flagged for missing a turn yet “Mr. Can Do No Wrong”, pushed a fellow racer off the track and got a slap on the hands. Really? Seems to me we got some double standards in play here.
Man that was bad. After the incident I just lost interest in the race which is a shame since I always pull for Pedro and he rode masterfully from wire to wire.
Yes Rossi has lost a lot more than 3 points…probably the championship, respect from his fellow riders and probably respect from many fans. Darn shame.
re: “Many race observers believe Rossi deliberately pushed Marquez wide, and then lifted his foot from his peg nearest Marquez and pushed Marquez causing him to crash.”
you mess with the bull kid you get the HORNS, as a Spaniard he should know that. it’s referred to as defending oneself from attack. no matter what Ross said (or didn’t say) leading up to this, he said it OFF track. and it’s quite possible what Ross said was in fact the TRUTH…? I mean you don’t ride 20 years and get to be 9x Champ without knowing a few things. this is applicable to ANY racer with that kind of CV, not just VR46.
example… (Jules Winnfield voice)
if 20 year vets Capirossi or Barros had made such observations (nay allegations) as a race and management professional i’m obligated to consider it (at least initially) at face value REGARDLESS of what my personal feelings might be of the rider.
however (comma) when a rider thinks to personally take the battle ON track is when you cross the line. BEFORE Rossi ever extended a knee, Marquez was deliberately slowing after passing in order to draw him in like so much Maverick (no not him, the Tom Cruise version) for the end game of tangling up a man who’s in contention for the Championship. well guess what…? you DON’T do that. see entry for “Unsportsmanlike Conduct” on the first part.
show me somebody who says different, and i’ll show you someone who’s likely demonstrated an INABILITY to think their way out of a paper bag.
I agree!
Marquez wanted this and that was obvious.
Marc wanted to play games—Rossi wasn’t having it!!!!—If Marc was on the verge of a title, he wouldn’t appreciate someone playing those games with him! Rossi was just removing the fly in his soup!
Rossi lost a lot more than 3 points in my book.
As I read the story I thought the same thing.
Marquez let Lorenzo through, confirming Rossi’s assertion that there was favorite games in play.
His missioh after that seemed to be sure that Rossi would either end up 4th in the race or would take them both out of the race no matter what.
That racing for 3rd was the roughest racing that I can recall. It was dangerous by Marquez. Something should be noted by race direction in that respect but won’t since he ended up the “victim”.
I agree with that. Marquez ran wide and left the door wide open for Lorenzo. The commentators called it a mistake but I don’t think so.
Wonder why there was no mention of the several times Marc pushed his way though in corners and Rossi had to take evasive action. I think Rossi just boiled over and ended that game. Marc was not smart enough to back off. Marc is too good to play these games. He’s going to get somebody hurt before Race Direction takes preventive action.
so FifagateGP 2015, spaniard slows down italian no matter what 2 races no one does nothing…
and Rossi WTtotalF?
just saw the video, and Rossi did it on purpose…
I hope the whole thing gets investigated and if Rossi accusations are true MM, JL gets severely punished and as for VR you can get any lower in sports ethics…
Did you watch the couple of laps before or just the one corner? Rossi took a wide line but did he turn into Marquez? No! Was there enough room outside of Rossi for Marquez without going off the track? Yes! Did Rossi’s foot come off the peg before Marquez hiit his leg? No!
This decision is a travesty and Marquez may have achieved his ambition of denying Rossi another championship.
Agree, Rossi did not hit him, but the “looks like” will have a very high political cost for him, and more because MM crashed.
“Marquez may have achieved his ambition of denying Rossi another championship” this is the part I can just accept; is it true that at a pro, the highest level of motorcycle competition a racer decides to engage in such a stupid goal of slowing other down to prevent him of getting a championship?