Photo of Project 156 engine released by Victory back in June of this year.
Late last week, Victory advised journalists to “save the date” for the unveiling at the Milan EICMA show in November of a new production motorcycle. Along with this notice, Victory sent along the photo below. Guess what? That photo shows an engine side cover identical to the side cover of the Pikes Peak Project 156 racer (a picture of that engine is at the top of this article). Yes, the bike that Don Canet raced at Pikes Peak earlier this year.
So we might be on the verge of a new era of U.S. production, performance motorcycles. The Project 156 machine was a v-twin, likely developed from the Indian Scout engine (pictured at bottom), which displaces 1133 cc and produces 100 hp in stock trim. We would expect that Victory’s production bike will make far more power than the Scout. Stay tuned.
Project 156 Pikes Peak race bike.
Engine case cover photo which reportedly accompanied recent announcement from Victory.
Indian Scout engine photographed from the same side.
See more of MD’s great photography:
I hope they’ve built an American bike that can compete with the Euro Hypernakeds (with at least a little wind protection and no electronic suspension!). I would be first in line!
Having said that, the lump (engine) looks as if it weighs 500lbs all by itself.
Harley failed with the V-Rod because of its VERY un-American bore and stroke which gave the bike poor low rpm torque characteristics.
The Scout has a 96 bore and 73.6 stoke. 96 IS a decent bore but it needs a 96 stoke with 108 being even better.
96 stoke gives you 1390 CC or 85 cubic inches. Now that bike will pull like a rocket from the lights and low speed corners. The efficient head design can feed that longer bore easily. We need to see 100+ torque.
Do NOT build another V-Rod
Mike, torque is a function of displacement, not stroke. A short stroke engine of the same capacity will have the same torque as a long stroke motor. You’re forgetting that, as a bore gets larger, the effective piston area increases giving more surface to push against. In each case you’re moving the same volume of energy through the cylinder.
A large cylinder bore is typically done so that you can get more valve area. This has the advantage of providing more power (allowing the cylinder to fill more efficiently at higher RPM). A small bore will produce (the same amount or less) torque since it must use smaller valves. Small valves and corresponding small intake runners help flow at low RPM.
Bottom line; if you want to accelerate harder, you need more power or more RPM and lower gearing.
It is correct that torque begins a pressure of combustion against the piston top but this pressure is converted into a revolving motion by the crankshaft.
The distance of the crankpin offset will determine the amount of leverage that is added to the piston pressure as the piston moves down with combustion.
As the crankshaft exits the crankcase a *Moment of Force* is created around that revolving axis. This mechanically amplified force is further multiplied by the primary gearing, the transmission train of gears and the final drive ratio.
For an easy running, quiet engine, with excellent low speed manners and without an enormous load of software you will enjoy long stroke torque.
For an excellent modern example please see the bore and stroke of the recent Honda NC 700 engines.
Almost any bike will accelerate to illegal speeds on public roads regardless of design though what you say is correct as far as you take it. In the real world on public streets what is the utility of high revving max speed take offs from the traffic lights?
So having followed the introduction of the V-Rod with HD’s customer base who actually buy HDs the complaint is that the V-rod lacked torque according to their perception of how a bike should perform and this was due to the tiny 2.87 inch stroke ( if I recall correctly) .
My point about a liquid cooled V-Rod type mill is that the bore was fine and had they used a 4-4.5 inch stroke the bike would pull like a monster on the street without 6-7,000 rpm.
On the track or the strip max out the RPM on a short stroke mill (no cops) and have a good day.
Readers: Do you like the Detroit Big Block experience as in the 454 Chev or 460 Ford or the many current after market engines? Go long stroke with natural aspiration.
Like the shrieking experience as in small displacement DOHC sports cars?
Go short stroke!
Buy what will drive and perform the way you want and stay out of jail and the Operating Room!
Todd’s point was that the stroke has nothing to do with how a bike “pulls”, and he is correct. If you take two engines with same displacement and one having a stroke twice as long as the other, you can tune the short stroke version to produce exactly the same torque numbers as the long stroke one.
If wishes were fishes…
One other demand: NO FORWARD FOOT CONTROLS! I like my feet under my azz.
EXACTLY!! Forward foot controls make my back ache.
Do the minimal required to make it street legal, reasonably comfortable, and have a decent range (160-200 miles). Do not cut off an ounce of character or add an ounce of cruiser flab!
Offer two versions: one high-spec with top components (brakes and suspension), and one priced more reasonably with very good components. Price the reasonable one between the FZ-09 and the KTM/BMW/Aprilia super standards, closer to the former please. Roughly the same price as the current Scout.
Offer an optional 1/4 and/or 1/2 fairing.
This would be my dream bike. An American roadster with performance, purpose, and character. Yes.
OK Victory, we know that you build bike named High Balls and 8-Balls, but do you have the balls to build the bikes that you tempt us with? Please, no more Ness Cruisers or 3-wheel cars that serve no purpose, give us a bike like the Pikes Peak effort or even ADV/Standard, somthing different than a ridiculous cruiser that’s trying to play catch up with Harley Davidson. Been there, done that.
Polaris needs to get committed to a broad range of bikes. The cruiser category is saturated with useless bikes. These guys seem to understand racing and offroading, but they need to apply it to two wheels for a change.
I think this is great news if it’s what we are hoping for. They could use this engine like Yamaha is with the FZ/FJ-09. Standard,adventure,sport touring,flat tracker,etc. I had a Vegas back in 04. Great reliable cruiser. Victory has my attention with this new platform.
A V-twin sport/sport-touring platform would be dA bOmB! And yes, leave Arlen Ness in old ’70s bike mags. The front view of the Vison looked WAY too much like Bozo the Clown.
I’ll be mighty disappointed if it turns out to be a tarted up cruiser.
Be Faithful!
Let me rephrase….
I too will be “mighty disappointed if it turns out to be a tarted up cruiser”.
I am ever so hopeful they will build a Super-Standard – Dirt-Tracker, or Street-Tracker style bike.
The project bike was….. so this helps feed my hope.
My “Be Faithful” comment was to the point of holding out hope for a real “Moon-Shot” for the brand.
I’d be happy with a standard sans the “super”. In fact, I’d probably prefer that as I’d like to see them shoot for the same price point as the Scout. I don’t think it would be very wise to compete directly against the benchmarks like the Tuono and Super Duke. Performance and electronics rule that segment, and it would be tough to come right out of the gate swinging at the heavyweights. However, the bike could stand out as an alternative to Monster 821s, Speed Triples or even as a performance alternative to retro bikes. That is a realm where performance isn’t the most important qualifier and other attributes of the motorcycle carry more value.
Tracker styling would definitely be a plus to me, but again, I’d settle for just plain old “standard”.
yes yes. A Buellish naked with real giggle inducing grunt.
Top-end rushes are giggle-inducing, low-end power is useful but bland. So as long as by “Buellish” you mean 1125-like grunt and not XB12, then yes, I agree. I don’t want anything remotely similar to the XB and prior Buell bikes.
The Buell 1125 was great to ride – low down grunt and a top end rush. The XB platform apex carving ability is second to none when set up properly. Fun stuff.
I’ll agree with that, I was just down at the Ducati dealer this week oogling the scramblers, and the whole time I kept wishing it was the 1100 EVO engine. If Victory gives up an 1100 with 110-120 ponies and monsterous midrange in a standard package, I’d drain my accounts.
A sport tourer with a fairing and bags, tastefully done [run, Vic, run from Ness!], without strange transformer sharp angles and pods and snouts, with a ROUND headlight, with this motor, would sell like hotcakes.
A V-Twin sport tourer would be the bike of my dreams. I own a BMW F800 GT and a Suzuki SV 650 S.
A blend of the best qualities of both would be awesome.
Is the 800 twin as buzzy as was reported?
I had my eye on that bike….
I noticed a buzz from 4700 rpm to @ 5200 rpm. It’s gotten much better as it has approached 10 K Miles. My friend has an identical bike, different color, that’s smooth as silk. I’m guessing I got a Monday bike and he got a Weds. one.
Overall liking it more and more with time. But love the V Twin the most.
I spent 4 days on a rented one that was very smooth as well. Maybe it was just my gel-palm gloves or perhaps I’m just not that sensitive to vibration, but at no point during that trip did I ever notice a tingle in my hands despite a couple of 10-hour days in the saddle. I thought it was a great bike. The whole rev range from idle to redline was usable, it handled well and it got the best fuel economy I have ever achieved on a motorcycle capable of highway speeds.
Most strangely boring engine I ever tested. I’m sure it does everything well but I don’t care.
A v twin sporttourer would be bad ass. But I like the styling of the cross country. However we are a ways off from getting a sporttourer just yet. The scout engine has much more potential than the current 100 hp. Even a hot rod cruiser with 120 hp would be a step in the right direction for a first bike with this engine.
This would be a fun bike, but did they take all their ideas from the Bimota SB2?
It was said at a Victory demo ride that now that Polaris has Indian as their “cruiser” line to placate the traditionalists and purists. Victory would become more of an experimental brand, going after the youth that doesn’t want the style of bike that their fathers and grandfathers wanted.
Victory will continue with the High Balls, 8 Balls, Magnums and Gunners since those don’t fit into the Indian line. Still they’ll bring more modern style “Non-traditional” bikes to the market. The Empulse TT is the first look at the change in style and design.
Hmm…First, Victory openly admits using Ducati componentry to build a one-off street racer. Now, for the first time in their history, they are revealing a new model in Europe (in Italy, no less). Could there have been some secret collaboration afoot?
Like car OEMs. Why wouldn’t bike OEMs get deals on much larger lots of common parts? It’s better for everyone except global overall employment.
Wasn’t it a swingarm?
That was simply about building a “One-Off” prototype and not spending more than needed to get racing.
IMHO, this new bike isn’t targeted at Ducati buyers…
I’m hopeful it will be a “Super-Standard” with Dirt-Tracker Styling and a 50% HP increase over the Scout.
Right – swingarm, forks, and shocks? All components that Ducati doesn’t manufacture, anyway, but all components that you could pull off a crashed/failed bike that are of decent quality and wouldn’t break the bank. Nothing Polaris had lying around would fit the bill, so they found something that would, and I can *almost* guarantee that Ducati had no knowledge or say in it.
Victory seems a good badge for a bike that is sold as a performance bike. Indian was a race bike company of old. But there aren’t many riders old enough to remember that.
Heck, when I first heard that Polaris was going to produce Victory Motorcycles. I assumed that they would have a performance line up. Victory, after all, is not a good name for huge bikes that can easily get dusted by bikes with much smaller engines.
Victory? Nahh, that’s a red herring. If it comes out, it will be as an Indian Sport Scout. Polaris has figured out how to cash in on the heritage angle, and a Sport Scout won the first Daytona 200 in 1937. The ads practically design themselves on this one.
Sorry, Victory fans, but you are stuck with the fat rear tyres and triangular headlights indefinitely.
you’ve got about a month to gloat – then when the bike comes out get ready to come back and pen your “Mea Culpa”…
We’ll be waiting
It would be big news if it’s a non-cruiser. That would really mean a new direction for Victory.
I will be surprised if the production bike hasn’t evolved a lot from “Project 156”. I don’t see Polaris putting something that raw and unrefined on the market. I’m not knocking “156”. It was impressive for being a rushed collaboration with a custom shop to build a one-off to compete in a type of racing that was unfamiliar to Victory. That is a different scenario than a company of this size taking a major step in the consumer marketplace. They obviously don’t want head-to-head reviews putting them in last place for being light years behind in content and build quality.
Polaris had better do something for Victory toot suite. The brand is withering on the vine, with nothing really new (other than paint and bling) in at least five years.
Fact Check: Please post some links and/or sales data sources to back up your “withering on the vine” comment related to Victory
>>>>>>
My view… Polaris is the beacon of new life for made in America by Americans motorcycles and a company that is spreading into new markets with the electric bikes, the Pikes Peak bike, Indian and new motor for the Scout lineup. What more is there to want at this point in the Victory short history and time as a motorcycle manufacturer?
Butttt of course….the Victory is not made in Japan or Europe…. nor is it a Harley…..which seems to be the core issue below the surface in some posts here.
Thanks for your post.
My “fact check” is visits to four Victory dealers withinbg 100 miles of my home. All three have leftover 2014 bikes that they cannot sell, even at steep discounts from MSRP. The dealerships are being kept alive either by sales of ATVs adn snowmobiles, or by having multiple brands of motorcycle for sale.
Four dealers is not a fact check. Somewhat happy we agree on everything else I posted
Let me repeat this: Victory is not made in Japan or Europe…. nor is it a Harley…..which seems to be the core issue below the surface in some posts here.
And btw……Polaris sales in 2014 = 4.5 billion or so….HD = 6.2 billion.
He would be hard pressed to back up that comment given that in 2014 polaris basically rebuilt the line with new engines and bringing production in-house. In the first two years having sold less then 1000 bikes to ramping up to over 100 dealers now.
Thrus…..thanks for your comment….
Polaris is an American success story we all should acknowledge, appreciate, support and admire.
Final time = Victory is not made in Japan or Europe…. nor is it a Harley…..which seems to be the core issue below the surface in some posts here.
Perfect!!!! I’ll be able to buy one of those sweeeet american vtwin engines that ran pikes peak on a custom frame…
A Ronin that’s it!
http://www.gizmag.com/47-ronin-buell-custom-motorcycle/34162/
Victory could easily produce something like this. KTM, Ducati, BMW, Triumph, all produce similar models. Clean up the lines. EPA compliance. Production here could under cut the price of the competition on the Dollar vs. Euro.