If your bike has a quick-shifter, you likely would not want to go back to using a hand-operated clutch once moving. Will the new generation of automatic transmissions have a similar impact on rider preferences in the future? Honda, BMW and others are introducing new automatic transmissions, with manual options, and now Yamaha has its next generation system, the Yamaha Automated Manual Transmission (Y-AMT).
It is interesting that Yamaha emphasizes sport performance with Y-AMT. The benefit is supposed to relate to, among other things, using the hands to shift in manual mode, rather than the left foot, and thereby allowing quicker, more intuitive shifts that permit the rider to position his feet without concern for shifting.
Here is some information from Yamaha on the new system, followed by a video that clearly shows where the controls are located:
Each step in our technological development seeks to provide you with a more immersive riding experience, even more addictive and gratifying. The new Yamaha Automated Manual Transmission (Y-AMT) is set to take that feeling further, marking the start of a new era with advanced gear shifting technology that introduces a new dimension to sports riding.
Y-AMT allows you to fully focus on enjoying the sports performance offered by your motorcycle, by delivering consistently linear shifts to create the most engaging riding experience with the choice of a slick, finger operated manual shift (MT) or a two-mode fully automatic transmission (AT)
With MT, fast and precise gear shifts are just at your fingertips, without having to manually operate a clutch lever. Shifts are controlled with the index finger and thumb, via two see-saw shifting levers – a plus lever for upshifts and a minus lever for downshifts. For greater control in sportier riding, the plus lever can also be pulled to shift up and pushed to shift down with the index finger alone, offering greater freedom, as there is no need to remove the thumb from the handlebars.
Using AT, you can choose between two programmes to suit different riding scenarios – easily switchable at any time via the dedicated MODE button. D+ MODE offers a sporty gear change by shifting later in the rev range to maintain the thrill of the ride while still offering the benefits of a fully automatic transmission. D MODE delivers a softer gear shift experience, while maintaining a low rpm, to maximise confidence during low speed, urban riding and manoeuvrability. While in AT, you can also choose to shift manually at any time by simply using the see-saw shift levers.
ENGAGEMENT
With a closer and more refined connection to the brain than the feet, the hands are one of the most tactile and powerful tools the human body has. Shifting by hand alone, as opposed to a foot-and-hand combination, is not only quicker but requires less thinking time, allowing you to hyper-focus on throttle and brake application, lean angle, body position and tyre grip levels to intensify the ride. With Y-AMT, you don’t have to move your left foot from the footpeg, allowing you to instead focus on body position and weight distribution through the pegs in order to enhance the control of your motorcycle, especially in cornering.
ENJOYMENT
MT has been developed to amplify the fun of sports riding, maximising the power characteristics of our crossplane-concept engine designs and sportiest ride modes. And with the speed and precision of each shift more consistent than when using even the latest quickshifter, the excitement and adrenaline of the fast gear changes in the sportiest of riding conditions take the thrill to the next level. In all modes, Y-AMT delivers a high level of refifinement that enhances the overall experience, allowing you to focus more on the riding and less on the mechanics, immersing yourself in the enjoyment and precision of the ride.
EXHILARATION
As all our technological developments, Y-AMT was born from Jin-Ki Kanno, which is our goal of providing you with the seductive exhilaration of becoming one with the machine. That’s why Y-AMT makes each ride even more fun and engaging, immersing you into a flow state where every movement feels natural and precise. Fostering a true symbiosis with the bike, Y-AMT allows you to focus on throttle, braking and cornering. The result is an adrenaline-filled ride that transforms every journey into an exciting and unforgettable experience.
I wonder. Bikes featuring the CP2 engine, Yamaha’s 700cc parallel twin, sell quite well. That engine, known for its durability, is sort of the last decent motorcycle engine for the keep it simple folks like myself. After the CP2 the industry decided that motorcycles need more than 100hp and that power needed to be regulated by a ride by wire system. Now they advertise the many modes you can have at your fingertips and some even charge you extra for access to a full power mode.
So here come the automated transmissions of one sort or another. For a lot of people they will be a value add. But like the cable operated throttle, are we going to see everything get some kind of control system between the rider and the thing he is trying to ride for both the throttle and gear selection?
Go ahead and call me a Luddite. But I want a simple motorcycle. Most of my dirt bikes have auto clutches. But that’s where I draw the line. Every one of my bikes has a cable operated throttle. As much as I like engines like KTM’s 690. I really hate it when I whack the throttle and get roll on from the ECU. Not in my garage you don’t.
Luddite, but right. KISS.
I admit to liking CV carbs though.
It sounds like you’ve never ridden a 690. Whack the throttle and you get massive acceleration, more than some bikes that are 50% larger. The only thing that I notice is missing when you whack the throttle on a 690 is the familiar cough, spit, and flameout.
Nope. I never have, – now CV carbs also do not cough, spit, or flameout, and they self adjust for altitude changes.
CV carbs very much DO NOT adjust for altitude, foolio.
foolio ? Is that a technical term, or has this site degraded to a kindergarten level ?
I’m 63. Even riding since I was 12. I have seen a lot of advancements. Took a demo ride on a 2023 Zero S. My daily rider is a 2018 KTM 690 Duke. I had so much fun on the Zero, I bought one. Takes a bit to get used to no clutch lever, especially when you switch bikes. But, I love the Zero, and NOT shifting makes sense to me on electric. It has nice compression braking feel on the regenerative braking too.
Don’t be afraid to try new things, you might be surprised.
YES, never be afraid to try new ideas or stuff, but verify before accepting.
Back when CVTs first came on the automotive scene, I tested every one, Nissan, Honda, Crysler et al, they ALL sucked functionaly. It did not help that CVT automotive design information for the public was non existant. Super Secret Stuff.
A little later, and the last one I bothered to test drive was a Ford suv. It was perfect, Just like a normal auto trans. I was flabergasted from Ford and still am.
Now that a history of service issues with CVTs is availble for all brands I still would never own one, but I tried and verified. SinLoi
Re: CVT and “just like a normal auto trans” – see, that’s the thing. Defeats the purpose. I am hugely impressed with Honda for the CV-T in the otherwise totally uninspiring and in some ways quite bad CR-V. It actually does not do the “fake gears” thing and holds the right RPM for the task at hand.
“Defeats the purpose”, not really. It (the Ford) still had the advantage of any CVT in local town type stop and go driving, however there was no disconect feeling between rpm and speed and load. Now, that test ride was over 20 years ago, so CVT total performance is undoubtly better now, but gears vs steel belts and lego push me thingeys still is a problem.
Don’t forget the manufacturers switched to CVTs for lighter, less expensive to make, and some fuel savings, not durability.
“however there was no disconect feeling between rpm and speed and load.”
This is what TimC is talking about. The “Feeling” is irrelevant. This is just the vestigial expectation that the vehicle sounds a certain way while accelerating. Below Todd says “it’s not in the right gear when you want it”. Again, a feeling / expectation based on past experience. The computer knows what the right ratio is, even if we have another idea. This just comes from CVT’s being tuned primarily for efficiency.
The point of any multi speed transmission is to allow the engine speed to be matched with ground speed but a selection of 5 or six ratios is a compromise. With infinite ratios on hand the engine speed can be chosen that best for the given load and adjusted so that it stays there as the vehicle speed changes. While that may not sound as cool to our old-school ears, it is objectively superior to swapping ratios and ranges.
As for perceived durability, that’s down to engineering. They can make them however strong they want.
I have driven some automatics and CVTs and, yes, the engine is almost always in the wrong gear for the situation. Slowing down for a corner? The transmission is in its highest gear and doesn’t know that it should downshift for engine braking and in preparation for accelerating out of a corner. Start heading up a hill? Again, the engine is already in top gear and must take a few moments of rattling and engine knock before it realizes it needs to down shift for more torque. You want to pass another vehicle that is slow in front of you? Pull out and push the accelerator and not much happens. Why? You guessed it, it’s in the wrong gear and you need to wait for the transmission to decide to downshift for any meaningful acceleration. I think this is why people are impressed with electric vehicles; just like with a manual transmission, there is instant torque and no slipping of torque converters and waiting for the transmission to downshift.
Even with a CVT, it’s not in the right gear when you want it, you need to wait for it to decide to shift. Just like a normal auto trans. Exactly. No thanks.
Dont know about a CVT , but all I do with an auto trans is down shift with my gas foot. Works every time.
PS. I am not defending the CVT, – because it sucks.
See Dave’s (thank you, sir) reply “This is what TimC is talking about” for elaboration on why CVTs do not, actually, “inherently suck.”
The only bike that I ever had that would struggle with clutchless shifting was my old airheads. Every other bike I have owned or ridden can easily shift smoothly without the clutch. It’s a novelty for a little bit but I don’t see any appeal as my hand pulls in the clutch automatically without even thinking about it anyway.
And what if your hand didn’t work properly? Or your foot?
You seem to dismiss this tech because it doesn’t DIRECTLY help you personally. I imagine you vote with the same level of solipsistic ignorance…
Yes, I choose not to buy any tech that does not add any benefit to my life. You are free to choose whatever aides that suit your handicaps. Your response to my post and the immediate turn to some sort of political red herring is the only thing here representative of solipsistic ignorance.
Your children will judge you, saving me the trouble of doing it now.
I bought a KTM Super Duke GT with clutchless up shift and now a Ducati Multistrada V2S with clutchless up and down shift. Both have handlebar adjustable suspension and lean sensitive braking. I have been riding for 72 years so I have seen many improvements from girder forks with a friction damper to a 3 speed two stroke. I have embraced every advancement!
50+ years on this ball. I can’t see ever owning and automatic MC. I will just keep buying the older used ones. I still have 27 year old pickup because it has 5speed manual and I keep fixing it so I do not have to get a new one as I don’t want and automatic.
I do see the point that I am no longer the target buyer and I agree as not much on market that I currently want.
You can’t find a motorcycle you want in the current market offerings? I have been riding for over 50 years and the variety of bikes available is almost mind-blowing. Maybe you need to look harder.
You have to be willing to accept what the market is willing to sell. For me the market is unwilling to produce what I am willing to accept.
Read the recent stories on any new bike. It’s all about some gimmick like an auto trans or clutch or something and the electronics package. Gone is any concern about weight whatsoever. Even though the component parts continue to get lighter, the finished bikes never stop gaining weight. I’m done with it. Public roads never change as a riding venue. Adding weight and complexity to a motorcycle for that venue does not improve it. It only makes an extremely limited venue more boring.
My neighbor “upgraded” from a Ducati Scrambler to a V4 Multistrada. He calls the new bike “the monorail”. Spare me any motorcycle that I am going to compare to anything train like. I’m the guy who in 1994 called my 278 pound Husqvarna 610 my “Harley” for the way it would happily consume boring roads. The 610 is why I sold my 916 Ducati because the 916 tended to make any public road more boring. I sold them both and built a supermoto from an XR650R. And yes, my go to bike is still a kick start XR650R based supermoto. It’s not the one that I built. It’s a really tricked out one that a machinist buddy of mine built. It’s a 2003. Here we are 21 years later and the majority of the street bike market weighs a lot closer to double than one and a half times as much as my humble XR. Not interested.
I read so many times, when automatics are being released on new models of mc, some just cant wait to condemn them. Never having ridden one. its not for everyone. remember when electric starters first came out, and everyone said only sissy’s rode bikes with them, a “REAL” motorcycle had to have a kick start, and then what happened? Most who have no idea of what these new gen autos are like, complain about things that are not real world, and have no clue as to any of the advantages of them. I have not ridden the new Yamaha. I have a ’12 Honda DCT, 12 years old now, the DBW and the toggle levers on the switch, make gear changes at speed leaned over, seamless. I can upshift, downshift, then upshift, and the only thing that changes is the rpm i can tell from the exhaust note. If you tried to do that, leaned over at speed in a corner with a hand clutch, you would be all over the road. they are not for everybody, and the argument they are for people with some impairment is ludicrous. Like good brakes and good suspension are for people with impairments. If you have a chance, ride one. keep an open mind. And lets all go back to hand crank auto’s, right?
Have you ever driven a car or truck with an automatic? It’s lame and the same reason why I wouldn’t want an automatic on my bike. The transmission never knows what gear it should be in and can’t anticipate when I would want it to shift. I doubt I will ever buy anything with an automatic.
Must admit that reflects my feelings too.
The one exception is the seamless transmission in my wife’s EV208 Peugeot, where copious electric torque is there under your right foot whenever you need it and regenerative braking works well. Clutch and gear stick duties are not needed such that your left foot might as well not be there!
I’ve yet to try a similar electric bike and am much less inclined to because I still enjoy ICE engines and the skill required to control the transmission.
I fundamentally agree with you (see my reply to Joe B elsewhere) but I disagree in terms of “never knows what gear it should be/can’t anticipate when I would want it to shift” – things have in fact come a long way and the auto in my Tiguan is seriously impressive in this regard (not a total shock as each gen of PDK in Porsches has gotten more and more good reviews in this regard, so I’m sure there’s tech sharing/trickle down going on VAG)(even though this is auto not dual-clutch I mean the programming part). It’s even improved as it’s learned how I drive.
About 20 years ago I owned a Honda quad with a push button transmission. It was so unsatisfying. I know that the technology is very different, but I can’t imagine that experience would be any different. But lets face it, new motorcycles aren’t being designed for those with a lifetime of riding experience, they are trying to bring in new riders. The newest bike in my garage right now is 19 years old – it’s comfortable and has great EFI and good suspension…it’s all I need.
I’m not adverse to stuff like this. It does add between 2.8 pounds to 2.8 kilos, depending on where the website that I read it is based. With so many people never learning to drive/ride a manual anything I can see how it could easily boost sales. Even the bicycle industry is working on it.
But it will never happen in my garage. My patience with the street bike industry has come to an end. I’ll be cherry picking used historical bikes for the rest of my days. I want a bike 325 pounds or less with between 80 and 90hp. The street bike industry wants to sell me something north of 110hp with nannies everywhere that weighs north of 500 pounds. That’s just not gonna happen. Irreconcilable differences. The only new bike on my radar is me building hooligan thing from a Kramer single. But it has ride by wire. I would have to really hold my nose on that one. Ride by wire is for electric bikes. The throttle cables on my old air cooled Ducatis are rapidly becoming a thing of beauty.
I think it was Dirck’s son that did a video quick interview with a guy who had a sub 350 pound air cooled Ducati at the Rock Store and posted it up on YouTube about a decade or so ago. That guy was making NCR really happy going motor mods and all. I think the stock engine is perfect for street use. Wasn’t his tag line “I ride bikes so you don’t have to”? I think I would have rather ridden that NCR myself.
Different but the same experience as Hondas DCT which I bought an example of 3 years and 46,000 miles ago. From my perspective as a 74 year old rider with 58 years of street riding experience, the DCT is brilliant and only enhances the riding experience. So easy to ride. Feel like shifting? put it manual shift mode and play with the upshift and downshift buttons. Dont feel like shifting? put in one of 4 automatic modes and just massage the throttle and brakes. Brilliant I tell ya.
I also own a 6 speed manual shift CB 1100, for days when I feel like pulling a clutch lever and wiggling my big left toe, but most days when choosing which bike to ride it’s usually the DCT equipped one, because of its incredible versatility.
Yes, I too own a DCT, a VFR1200 ’12. Also with 58 years riding experience, so many that say “i dont want one”, never rode one. “I dont want better brakes, I dont want better suspension, I dont want a better seat, I dont want a smoother throttle delivery, I dont want this I dont want that”, so they say. Ri-ight. they never rode one, but they scream the loudest. It will be interesting when the new Honda auto clutch comes out, i would like to see that, feel that, ride that. Hopefully soon.
I don’t care how good it is, it’s just not the same. For instance, I recently got a Tiguan to supplement the GTI (manual). Yeah the Tig’s 8-speed (Toyota, basically) transmission is brilliant, easily the best auto I’ve ever driven, and when I got the GTI I test drove the DSG – sure it’s objectively better, but it wasn’t the same. I went with manual as I figured I’d really regret it if I didn’t, and I was right.
I shift without the clutch on my bike (pre-quick-shift-etc) when underway already, it’s not difficult at all, you just sort of wait for it.
“I don’t care how good it is…”
Spoken like a Trump voter.
LOLWUT
That said. TRUMP 2024
She looked at me with those big brown eyes, and said
YOU AIN’T SEEN NOTHIN YET
https://qagg.news/?q=&q2=3387
I find DCT MUCH less dull and offputting on a bike than in a car.
In a car, at sub track/race levels of commitment, shifting/clutching IS the driving experience. Take that away, and replace it with a clumsy robot, and there’s virtually nothing left. May as well “drive” in the back of an Uber.
On a bike OTOH, shifting just a small part. And a part which can be annoying in many stoplight-to-next stoplight-every-quarter-mile type scenarios.
I’ve never wanted to have an auto bike but can see how some would. My friend has an auto Wing. He likes it, I’m ambivalent about it. I rode it, I could see where it would have an advantage in traffic. I took a riding class put on by police with cones etc. He showed up and struggled with it between the DTC and linked brakes. He got through it and coped with it. He offered to let me do the exercises on it, I had to pass. That’s kind of the way I feel about electric bikes, just ambivalent. No passion.
Yes, or at least most likely. Took a little while for auto transmissions to take over, but they now rule the NA car market, I don’t see any reason it won’t happen to the two wheelers. I’m not thrilled about it, but things always change. I hope that in 20 years I can still buy a new “old school” trans, or at the very least have the option to run the gears myself.
I’m 65 and after resisting such shifts to automatic transmissions, I see the light. Fuel economy, attracting young riders, sitting in a sweet RPM zone, electric-smoothness….all of these portend a total transition to automatic transmissions with 8 speeds on a motorcycle, 12 on a car or pickup. I’m fine with that.
More technology to ensure you ride as fast as possible and probably faster than that too. What good is that in the real world of traffic, mud on the road and other unforeseen hazards? Of course it could just be designed to make bike-riding easier for riders who simply don’t enjoy the experience. Next we’ll have the self-driving bike: maybe they are already working on that.
Nick
A couple years ago Honda had a self balancing and moving bike that would follow you into a barn or a grocery store, after you stepped off.
Never rode an auto bike, however, after switching to an auto trans car, from always shifting, I can see the usefulness once a positive relationship developes tween throttle position and engine torque point, to concentrate more on fast curves while accelerating. A Touque converter helps too.
We blew past the “is this safe?” warning back when we got access to bikes wih more than 50hp. Self preservation instincts have (mostly…) kept us from flying off of cliff side roads.
This sounds pretty good to me. Operating gizmos like manual transmissions, non-abs brakes and high hp bikes are seen as rites of passage and intrinsic to the riding experience by older, established riders. I think to far more newer riders these things are distractions from the riding experience. Bring it on. The used market is full of nice overpowered bikes for the purists.