The other day, Alex wrote an article about driver courtesy in the canyons, and asked our readers to respond with their own experiences. As we have come to expect, quite a few of our readers have responded. Because there are so many responses (and because many are quite lengthy), I will break this article up into installments. Below, in their unedited form, is installment no. 1:
- I always ride my sportbike at a fairly aggressive pace on several of N. California’s trans-Sierra state highways which, by the way, on one of them I just happen to live. At the higher elevations, this particular highway which is closed in winter turns into a narrow, windy not very well engineered road without a center line. Passing is never a problem on this section, but without a centerline there is often more risk.
My experience is that there are three kinds of drivers that I have to deal with when trying to pass.
One is the courteous type who, as soon as he or she sees you in their rear view mirror and understands that you want to pass, will almost immediately help you get around them. I often imagine that a number of these drivers might be sportbike enthusiasts themselves, or at least have an appreciation for the fact that we would rather stay home in bed than have to follow slow traffic all day long.
Another type is the individual who sees you but insists that he can speed up to get you off his tail and perhaps outpace you. This, of course, just never works and makes for a more frustrating experience.
Thirdly, it’s the operator who can very easily sense that you want to pass but who remains adamant/indifferent/oblivious and continues to poke along as if there weren’t a vehicle in sight behind them. This often forces a fast pass over a non-passing lane much to the chagrin of the operator who then tells himself that these crotch rockets ought to be against the law.
I always make it a point, however, before passing to try to signal somehow in a respectful manner that I would like to pass and in the case of a courteous driver, I always give a little wave of gratitude when I’m accommodated.
I would roughly estimate these three categories as 40%, 30% and 30%, respectively.
- i ride in northren cal. sonoma coast mostly. bohemian hwy, hwy 1 from muir beach to fort brag and all the twisties in between out to clearlake and napa.
I have a triumph tiger.
My pace is moderate, usually 10 to 20 over the posted limit, and down to the limit when i see a chp.
The percentage of the automotive public that pulls over is about 65%.
Alot of the cagers are nuttier than the motorcycling public and there have been times when i pull over for them.
Out here we encounter alot of RV’s and those are totallt oblivious to everything.
As for common sence, there is none. on more than one occasion i have had to preform emergency manovers
as the auto was half in my lane at the apex of the turn.
- I spend a lot of time in 2 areas:
1 – Orlando, Florida
bike: BMW R1150R
pace: I use the whole tire, sometimes the footpegs (i consider it
moderate?)
0% of drivers pull over, many speed up when I try to pass.
2 – I also ride in North Georgia/North Carolina a lot
bike: same BMW R1150R
pace: Same – I use the whole tire, sometimes the footpegs (i consider
it moderate?)
50% of drivers pull over while I am riding.
I also drive my car (Acura TSX) in both places at about the same corner
speeds. No cars pull over for me then. Interestingly, bikes do not
pull over for me when they are going slower than my pace (in the car).
Yes, I have come up on plenty of sport bikes while driving my TSX. Not
everyone with a motorcycle (including sport bikes) seems to enjoy
leaning it over. When on the motorcycle I do give a ‘thank you’ wave
when someone pulls to the side to let me pass. I have also moved to
the side to let faster traffic pass.
I’ll be interested to see your results. I enjoy the web site.
- i live and ride in san diego full time on a 2003 honda vfr800a
interceptor–a moderately powerful, but extremely capable bike. i have
ridden palomar mountain on countless occasions and have also ridden many
popular riding haunts such as angeles crest and ortega highway. i ride
pretty hard and fast (“aggressive” from your choices), but am conscientious
of those around me and try to minimize unnecessary risk or scaring cager
civilians.
you must certainly be aware of the locals’ ongoing complaints at
motorcyclists in the palomar mountain area. some half-wits have even poured
oil on the corners to bring the sportbikers down, but of course, the chp
doesn’t seem too concerned with this despicable behavior.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050820/news_1mi20jenkins.html
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20050925-9999-2m25moto.html
with rare exception, the drivers in southern california suck. these people
act entitled to drive any way they please without regard to those around
them. i would say that in san diego county, less than 10% of drivers moving
slower than the (automobile or motorcycle) traffic behind them move to
accommodate others. i find this appalling. turnouts should be enforced, but
since the idiots are doing the speed limit, we’ll never see enforcement.
i have a new expression on the freeway, too: thunderbirds! the
self-important, self-involved, cell phone yapping idiots who fly “in
formation” such that they block several lanes of traffic because they won’t
speed or slow and move over to allow others to move around them. the beauty
of a motorcycle is that i can split lanes (shhh, don’t tell anyone!) at any
speed and often do. i used to stereotype and blame asians or women for
piss-poor driving habits, but more and more i see men driving the same way!
and whatever happened to the friendly
“so-sorry-i’m-a-complete-f***ing-idiot-and-wasn’t-paying-attention-and-nearl
y-ran-you-over/killed you” wave? a little apology or regret goes an awful
long way with me!
- Paso Robles, CA.
V-Strom – 1000.
Usually ride “flow” + 5 mph in traffic or when in cruise mode.
Low percentage of people actually “allow” a pass by me.
High percentage of people are passed by me.My opinion is that, generally speaking, a lot of riders do not leave
as much gap to the car in front as you would if you were in a car.
I believe that, coupled with the relatively bright headlights (x number of riders),
“freak” people out and they would rather just not deal with it.
It would seem to follow that people not living near large freeway systems
or cities would get nervous easier than people who are used to the hustle
and controlled kaos present in these urban areas. In other words if drivers are
used to close proximity “slice n dice” driving, they are less likely to pull over.
If this were true “courtesy” would be the wrong word. Thanks for asking.
- I thought that your encounter of ‘polite’ drivers was interesting. I personally noticed some politeness in drivers last weekend. I live in the middle area of the Hudson Valley in New York state. I took my 2000 Honda VFR800 for my annual trip to New Berlin, NY on a very hot Sunday morning. For I was meeting my brother and buddy for our ritually viewing of the AMA Outdoor National race at Unadilla. I had an unusually early start at 6 am taking as many two lane back roads as I can, the more curves the better in my book. While leaving the more populated area of the valley and heading towards the Catskill mountains the traffic was fairly light. Upon heading into the mountains on Rt28 east I was trying to keep the pace at a reasonable 70 to 75 mph, but I had to keep going a bit faster because I had no less than 3 or 4 cars pull to the side of the road to allow me to pass them. And this is before the roads even get interesting with decent curves and such. I had a mini-van pull to the side of the road and wave me past as I was getting close to a small town, and gave the driver a friendly wave as I went by. Good thing the road was rough and in need of repair, because a State’ty was waiting in town to pull into traffic, and moved in behind the van. Luckily for me for the roads would have been very boring at a cars pace. Thank you mister mini-van for running interference. For some reason unknown to me the rides gods were looking upon me that day. The ride back was just as pleasant. I was not really in any hurry having spent the complete day baking my person in the abnormally hot and sunny weather that we were lucky to have. I had a couple of other cars move and wave me past, or slow down when it was convent for me to pass, which I though was very nice, but not typical of what I normally have to contend with. My typical rides in the Hudson valley area leave me wondering if I should trade my sport tour for a cruiser, or worse, the car. Normally it seems that when I want to enjoy some the the capabilities of my motorcycle I am being held up by some four wheeled vehicle that is practicing for their road test, or when I want to enjoy the scenery some big fat SUV or large pickup is trying to run me off the road from behind. This is all in great contrast to when I commute on the bike. Then is it a gun fight at the OK corral, shoot or be shot. Guard your space and cover the break, the small guy always looses. For me, I plan to take more rides into the country, and appreciate the nice drivers that give some respect to there fellow motorist, and I shale return the favor.
Best wishes and happy trails.
- The area you typically ride in (city, state or region, country). South East Michigan
What type of bike you ride. 2003 Z1000
A short description of your typical pace on twisty two-lane roads moderate to aggressive depending on the day
Estimate what percentage of drivers pull off and allow you to pass when they realize they are holding you up. In this area over the past 17 years I have honestly never had a single car pull off to let me pass. when I go on motorcycle vacations and this happens I am usually cautious .. thinking they are waiting for me to get close just so they can run me down (like they would in Detroit).
Any other related information, such as a general description of the level of courtesy and common sense drivers in your local twisties display. Car drivers in and near Detroit have no respect for bikes … if they are slowing you up they are pissed that you are behind them … if you pass them they try to catch up so they can ride your but … basically this mean when you decide to pass them you are committing to driving much more aggressively then you intended just so that they cannot stay on your tail. This area SUCKS!
- I am responding to your article about courteous drivers. I am one of those drivers who might make you frustrated. I often drive in the Palomar Mountain / Lake Henshaw area in our motorhome. If I am on a flat area and notice a vehicle or two close behind me, I will pull over at the first opportunity. If I am on a hill, I will not pull over because it takes away all of my momentum and I just might not make it up that hill. Patience, please. I am not driving slowly to anger you, I am driving slowly because that is all I can do in my 1973 Open Road Dodge motorhome, towing a trailer full of dirt bikes.
- I ride a Kawasaki KLR650 dual sport.
I live in the Columbia Gorge area near Mt. Adams in southern WA Cascades.
My riding consists of highway, twisty paved 2 lane roads, gravel roads, and
some dirt roads/trails.
On the twisty paved 2 lane roads I tend to ride in a moderate to agressive
manner depending on my frame of mind.
I would estimate that about 15-20% of the vehicles I encounter on the
twisty roads yield to motorcycles.
It seems that many of the drivers that yield may be riders themselves or at
least motorheads possibly.
- I’m in Santa Barbara county CA and spend most of my
riding time in SB or San Luis Obispo county. I make
trips up and down coast HWY 1 as well. I ride a
Triumph D650 sport bike, and a Triumph Sprint RS sport
tourer. When I’m on the D650 my pace is aggressive,
but sane. (is that possible?) When I’m on the RS, I’m
just a wee bit slower. But whichever bike I’m on, I
only go as fast as the road will allow. On the back
roads I travel, I can tell you that very few drivers
will pull over to let me by. I would say that maybe 2%
of the cages out there acknowledge that there is
someone behind them trying to get by. I myself pull
over to the right to let faster motorcyclists by me,
but I haven’t had to pull over yet to let a faster
cager by.
Santa Barbara county (and to a somewhat lesser degree
SLO county), has become a magnet for posers of the
wine drinking and bicycle riding crowds, thanks to
movies like “Sideways”, and people like Lance
Armstrong. I don’t really know what gets into these
people’s heads when they come up here from the LA
metroplex, but I believe they think that they’re in
some real world amusement park. These wine whores and
bike fags turn the back roads into a series of rolling
road blocks that endanger everyone around them. The
wine whore will, first of all drive half of the posted
speed limit, which is 55 mph. They will stop in the
middle of the road, I mean park the damn cage right it
the frickin middle of the road, in a blind turn, and
step out of their cage and start taking pictures. WTF
dood, this ain’t Disneyland?!?!?!?! This happens on
such a regular basis it’s mind numbing. The bike fags
will ride 3 or 4 abreast like the road is a designated
bike lane, when in fact, it’s a county road with a 55
mph speed limit. I cannot fathom what the hell is in
their minds that they think it is OK for them to so
blatantly disregard the rules of the road like that.
One day a farm kid in a 4×4 is going to cheat a
corner, which they often do, and turn a group of these
lamers into spandex sploog. I sometimes just stop my
bike and start screaming at these aholes about what it
is they’re doing and just who the hell do they think
they are creating a potential road disaster. I’ve
lived in this area since the mid 70’s, and have ridden
these roads for decades. It’s become a joke out
there. As far as people pulling over….it’s rare I
can’t get around someone, even when they’re trying to
block me, which I’ve had happen on many occasions as
well. If people would just drive with a bit of
concentration and basic courtesy, there wouldn’t be as
many problems out there on the roads. Sorry for being
so long.
- I live in Denver. Drivers who pull over to let you pass averages about 30 percent in my mind. (With over 20 years riding roads around here.) Obviously some days are better than others AND I find that when I’m on my 1200GS with motolights I get a better pullover factor.
We just returned from 2 and a half weeks on 2 F650’s touring Europe. (Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy and France.) The pull over factor there was more like 60 percent but the biggest difference is that drivers in cars expect that motorcycles will lane split, pull to the front of a line of stopped traffic, or do whatever is necessary to get to the front of the pack,…because motorcycles, especially in twisty sections, are faster than cars. Why hold them back? It makes no sense.
My wife tells me that for Americans it’s a lack of awareness on the part of drivers. They treat anything on two wheels as a toy. If it’s not a car they don’t even see them. I’m afraid I lean toward the theory that it’s an American attitude. “This is my car and I’m entitled to my section of the road, at the speed I choose to go.”
I’ll tell you this…you don’t find ANYONE just hanging out going slow in the passing lane on the Autobahn.
- – I ride in Upstate NY, VT, MA, and the northwest part of CT. Lots of
fabulous roads… I ride about 10k miles/year.
– ’04 Honda VFR, ABS, matte black.
– Pace moderate to aggressive. Margin for error, but at the limits of
visibility. When a deer jumps out at me, I’m braking hard.
Drivers letting me pass is almost unheard of. It pretty much never
happens. When it does, I am shocked and give the biggest wave I can
manage.
Opinions:
I think most drivers don’t grasp the fact that when the road curves,
motorcycles maintain or increase speed while they slow down. If cars
would just hold off a little on their acceleration down the next
straight, m/cs would more easily and safely pass, and never be seen
again.
On the other hand, I’m sure many cars around here have had the
experience of being stuck behind a group of cruisers riding “a very
relaxed pace.”
Letting faster vehicles pass is absolutely a courtesy and should be
more common, regardless of wheel count. I’ve been riding along and
encountered guys in hot cars behind me… I slide over at the next
straight and let them go by!
- I thought I’d respond to your question concerning “Do Slow Drivers Let You Pass?”.
I ride mostly in northern Illinois, although I take frequent out of state trips. I ride a BMW R1200GS. My typical pace is cruising to moderate. It is very rare for a driver to pull over to allow me to pass, although this did occur surprisingly often when I was recently in the Deal’s Gap, NC area.
My viewpoint may be influenced by the fact that I live near Chicago where courtesy is extremely rare and any day without encountering outright hostility is a good day.
I feel that as long as there is no posted minimum speed, a driver is entitled to drive at whatever speed under the limit that they feel comfortable at. I do not feel that slower drivers who do not pull over are being “uncourteous”. There are a lot of older and/or inexperienced drivers who may need to negotiate tight curves at 1/2 of the posted “caution” speeds. Naturally, the slower drivers should show courtesy by driving in the “slow” lane if it is a multi-lane road. If it is a 2 lane road then I feel it is my responsibility to be a courteous motorcyclist by not tailgating the slower drivers and then only passing when it is safe to do so.
We shouldn’t expect the slower drivers to pull over for us, we should slow down, back off, and pass them when it is safe to do so. Courtesy goes both ways!
- The area you typically ride in – (city, state or region, country). O’ahu, Hawai’i. It is a small island, so on a ride I can hit city, country, and rural roads within an hour.
What type of bike you ride – ’04 CBR 600RR
A short description of your typical pace on twisty two-lane roads (cruising, moderate, aggressive, knee down and about to highside, etc.) – I usually cruise due to the large amount of traffic and clueless people. But if I hit the few twisty places here with no cars in front of me (rare) I will drop a few gears and ride moderate to aggressive depending on the condition of the road. On roads that I have ridden on many times I will ride more aggressive because I know where the potholes, gravel, shoulders, wipeout dots (raised reflectors/reminder bumps) are. Plus some roads are in such disrepair that I feel like I’m riding MX more than street. Plus they just closed the track here so I have no outlet.
Estimate what percentage of drivers pull off and allow you to pass when they realize they are holding you up – Absolutely zero. I have never had anyone pull over to let me pass. More often than not if I pass someone on a broken yellow line they will speed up as I pass. Also if I turn on my blinker to get over, I hear the engine roar to cut off my spot.
Any other related information, such as a general description of the level of courtesy and common sense drivers in your local twisties display. Many times I’ve gone around corners leaned over and have run into the dreaded animal that plagues this place, the tourist. Both driver and passenger are leaned out the window looking at the mountains, ocean, field, anything and they drift over on to my side of the road. Nothing says crapping yoru pants when you see a car so far over at the last second and you are on the outside of the turn already trying to avoid them and feeling and hearing the crack of your helmet glancing off of the side view mirror of a car as you grind your footpeg trying to both stay upright and away from the wipeout dots on the outside of the road. I have actually seen a tourist driving with the map spread out over the steering wheel trying to navigate. I thought this was bad movie comedy, but I’ve seen it. And using a blinker here is not recommended. If you use a blinker or even look over your shoulder to get over, people will speed up to cut you off. I hate to add to the sportbike stereotype and weave in and out of traffic, but if it is between being nice and being a greasy spot on the road, I’m sorry, I’m living through my ride. People here are very incourteous and absolutely hate sportbikes. But this is because most of them are kids doing tricks down one of our three highways too fast with no gear and splitting lanes. All of these things have combined to completely take the fun out of riding for me. I don’t go out on day long rides with friends because 1) there nowhere to go that isn’t filled with traffic 2) people seem to have it out for you (merging into you and not seeing you. I’ve been run off the road twice) and 3) road conditions. My bike has become just a means of transportation and no longer a fun activity on the weekends. I’m sure some guys here will contradict me, that guy is probably riding a wheelie at 90 mph down H1 through traffic. I can deal with winters again if I can just get some nice clean backroads or canyons.
Sorry for the long email. Hope you read the whole thing and thanks for putting out a great website!
- Interesting topic…….You may also consider the flip side…How many bikes (%) percentage wise pull over for cars ?……….In my experience of 36 years and some 500,000 miles street riding I have found that cars/trucks generally pull over for bikes while bikes will rarely if ever pull over for a car…….Good Luck & Keep Upright……
- I also live in the north San Diego area and frequently ride the 76, 79, and 78 highways. I seldom ride Palomar because of some of the squids crowding everyone, and the oil the pissed-off locals spread on the road.
I have two bikes: a Kawasaki W650 and a Yamaha FZ1. I would call my pace pretty moderate, especially on blind curves. I will not ride faster than I can stop on the pavement I can see. When I can see where I’m going, I try to keep it under 10 MPH over the limit; I have never had a speeding ticket and don’t want to start now. That said, I usually don’t have anyone tailgating me if I’m not already hung up behind a slow driver.
When I was relearning to ride after a dozen years off bikes, I was cautious, and frequently would pull over to let faster vehicles by me. It can be embarrassing to be passed by a minivan on Ortega, but better safe than sorry. The only four wheeler I have had to let by in the last several months was a Corvette and some souped-up Integras on Palomar’s East grade this last Saturday.
I find maybe one in ten will let me pass them at the first reasonable opportunity. And another fifth will let me by eventually. I think most of those who let me by are locals, and it is the tourists and gamblers most likely to hog the road. Among the worst offenders seem to be those with toy hauler trailers heading out to or coming back from the desert. This last weekend, the only two cars to pull over without any prompting from me were those already going at a pace I found comfortable (45 in the curves, 60 on the straights), if less than my ability.
My enmity is reserved for those who not only go slow when you can’t pass them, but speed up where you could pass (such as the stretch immediately west of Santa Ysabel). I have had yutzs do 35-40 though the moderate curves, then speed up to 70 on that legal passing zone. It is especially frustrating because that area is so heavily enforced by the CHP and you are so visible if you kick it up to pass. I dislike passing across the double yellow, and will only do it if it is clear and the slowpoke is egregious.
