You doubted KTM. You know you did. From the start of this abbreviated MotoGP series, KTM has looked strong and today rookie Brad Binder romped to victory – the first win for KTM in the MotoGP category.
After taking the lead mid-race, Binder checked out. Ultimately, he won with a gap of more than 5 seconds over second place Franco Morbidelli (Yamaha) and third place Johann Zarco (Ducati). Zarco surprised everyone with pole position in yesterday’s qualifying.
In addition to Binder, KTM looked strong beneath other riders. Pol Espargaro was fighting for a podium position with Zarco when the two collided and Espargaro ended up in the gravel. Zarco was penalized with a “long lap” requiring him to take a wide line in a corner after the incident. KTM also shined with the performance of Miguel Oliveira, who worked his way up to 6th position from a poor qualifying effort that saw him start well back.
Points leader Fabio Quartararo (Yamaha) faded from 2nd to 7th position at the flag with tire degradation issues, but actually extended his championship points lead over Maverick Vinales (Yamaha) who had a miserable day while finishing back in 14th position.
The riders go at it again next week at the Red Bull Ring in Austria. You can find full race results here. For additional details, visit the official MotoGP site.
Time for motorcycle talk and less boy racer hero worship.
You continue to make that comment over and over and over. It never resonates here, and never will.
Dirck runs this site. Dirck used to race. For all I know, he may still race. Dirck enjoys MotoGP racing, and MotoGP discussions. All your incessant bitching about it is never going to change a thing. When Dirck has a motorcycle to review, he reviews it and posts his thoughts here. When he has nothing new to review, which has often been the case during this Covid shutdown, he, like everyone else in the industry, is left waiting for things to open up again.
With age is supposed to come wisdom. As ancient as you clearly are, how have you not figured any of this out yet?
Do you understand balance ? I have brought this racing interest up once before. That is all.
I knew KTM would win this year before Aprilia. How long has Aprilia been trying?
There is something special happening at KTM…and that includes their continual improvements of their Superduke I’m saving my pennies for.
Brad Binder is also special. This could be a sweet year for him!
Hard to imagine that all those Red Bull sponsorship euro’s didn’t help (a lot..).
I got rid of my KTM because I couldn’t make it do the same thing twice…ever. Lets see about next week…
The same thing twice?
As a long time KTM slappie, I didn’t doubt them…I just didn’t think it would happen as quickly as it did.
I mean….think about it….steel frame and using their own in-house suspension (WP)? I thought it would be a longer journey to the top step, that’s for sure.
Congrats to them.
I knew they would do it, with their in house suspension i thought that to be an advantage. They rule in so many forms of competition it was a matter of time. For these folks in the headline saying we doubted KTM phuk them, how do they know what we think.it would be best for you to leave our opinions to our own thinking not yours. besides that you up to date news is non existent.
Consider me gone, you aren’t even a n also ran anymore.
A little harsh, no? I think the first couple of sentences were meant as a friendly jibe. But you knew that.
Interesting… and WRONG. I wonder why there are SO FEW 2 stroke cars and trucks on the road…. Even in the former Soviet Union there are virtually no 2 stroke cars any longer. Two strokes are simple and cheap to manufacture (VERY appealing for car manufacturers, if they could get away with it), but they are not efficient. They use much more fuel per horsepower than 4 strokes. And, while I am anything but a “greenie”, they pollute horribly. Four strokes obsolete…. not on this earth.
Cameron weighs in:
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/bikes/advanced-two-strokes-to-power-formula-1-future/
welcome to the future.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S209580991830715X
Two points:
1) How many of these are on the road?
2) I have been hearing of these “Super-duper Advanced” two strokes for over 30 years and….. see point 1….
Two points:
1) How many of these are on the road?
2) I have been hearing of these “Super-duper Advanced” two strokes (Orbital, anyone?) for over 30 years and….. see point 1….
Most of them are on the water right now and doing fine. Some in the air.
The BUSDIG engine described in the link you supplied is much closer to a Detroit Diesel truck engine complete with exhaust valves, sleeve ports and also complicated control add ons like water injection. I ain’t a V4 Honda/Yamaha from the 90s and not easily adapted to high performance motorcycle packaging. Two strokes are dead because they no longer had a place in the street bike market and they’re not coming back.
The bike he rides is a lightly tuned SD
Best post award 😁
Doubt KTM? I’m a dirt biker. KTM is slow and deliberate. Go to an off road event now days and it’s easier to count the bikes that aren’t orange, or Husqvarna.
My only question is will KTM start making the go to MotoGP bike, in the fairly distant future, for each and every team that wants a good predictable race bike.
In the end, I’m a used to be GP fan that pulled out in 2002 when it became a series for obsolete technology IMO (four strokes). Maybe KTM can bring me back for a race or two. They still make and develop two stroke race bikes for fundamentalists like myself.
I love to see them taking it to the swine that have both changed so many racing games to promote these Rube Goldberg engines and made it so expensive to compete for the common man.
Four strokes are obsolete technology!?!? WOW, you need to educate yourself on both engine technology and engine architecture.
Four strokes were rendered obsolete decades ago in 500GP. There was never any rule against them, and they were the dominant technology before being rendered obsolete. That’s how the world works.
Since the GP rules were changed to mandate four strokes, they have required every rider aid known to man to make them safe enough to ride.
There are rumors of F1 going two stroke. That would be hilarious.
Your opinion may vary. Mine never will. I live on earth. If an engine architecture needs a rule to compete. It is because that architecture was rendered obsolete. End of story.
So I thought the two strokes did compete in the transition to four strokes and lost. Better on the brakes (by far) but slower over the lap. Did the rules give them a dis-advantage?
Also, if you step out of your bubble and think about the fact that you share the earth with others, you could see a bigger picture where moto-racing is less important than the environment (it is a sport, no?). You might also realize your’s is not the only opinion that counts, no matter how rigid.
The suggestion that 500-cc 2-strokes are more rideable than 4-strokes, and that rider aids wouldn’t have developed for them is … interesting.
2 strokes and 4 strokes ran side by side and 4 strokes won Immediately and outright.
They have rider aids because they’re making power at levels never even imagined when 2T’s were run. Even at their lower output, 2T’s were harder and more dangerous to ride.
2 strokes are the obsolete technology.
capirossi said his ducati w/all the nannies turned off was “worse than two-stroke 500”. doohan eschewed water/fuel injection, traction/launch/wheelie control… how big of a wing would a 110-15 kg, 250-65 bhp 500 2-stroke need on it’s nose?
Bench racing is fun, but doesn’t always lead to the truth. 4T’s outran 2T because they were allowed double the displacement. If the four-strokes could have won with the same displacement, weight, and fuel limits, the results would likely (perhaps unprovably) have been different.
Two strokes were legislated out of existence, not tech’d out.
Ah to old tired “double the displacement “ argument. This was allowed because a 2T engine fires twice as many times per minute (double the…) at the same speed as a 4 stroke. The 4T’s were also handicapped by a much higher minimum weight and very little development time and yet they won from the 1st race, displaying unanticipated advantages, like greater tire life and easier power handling, despite having more power. Imagine the 2T fan’s surprise when they figured out that a 4T can also rev much higher!
Moto2 bikes are faster today than 500cc go bikes were.
The 2T lost out because it’s a technology that had reached the end of its limits.
<>
You might have sounded semi credible if you hadn’t included that.
Direct injection 2 strokes are not what you remember and may change everything.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S209580991830715X
That’s a paper study, not an engine. Academia is full of engine concepts that never come to fruition for one practical reason or another. It is also unlikely a 2T engine will ever run clean enough to pass modern emissions standards.
It is also telling that despite their being smaller, lighter, and less complex than 4T’s, you don’t see them widely employed in aviation. A big reason for this is that they sacrifice their weight advantage to inefficiency (must carry a bunch more fuel) and the 2T engines that are flying (mostly Rotax 582’s) aren’t acceptably reliable enough for stuff that doesn’t glide REALLY well, if you get my drift…
If you pulled out in 02 you’ve missed a metric crap ton of great racing. I’d be all for allowing smokers to compete against the diesels if they were limited to 500cc. After all they do fire twice as often 😆🏁
“Slow and deliberate”? Since when? I’ve got a garage-full of trophies that I won riding a slow and deliberate Penton KTM. I also think you ought to ride a Super Duke … then tell us about slow and deliberate.
I think he meant that the company was slow and deliberate in its development of new bikes – not that the bikes were slow.
It was a good race. Brad has shown speed in the last two races, and overcame the errors that messed up his first two races.
Fabio kept his cool when this was clearly not his race, and extended his lead in the Championship.
Olivera showed pace and improvement. Expect good results from him throughout the year.
Shame about Pecco. Hopefully he will heal up soon and completely and we’ll see his potential.
Mav had a rough race, but still holds a solid 2nd overall.
Not a huge fan of Zarco, but think his long-lap penalty was issued in error. If Ducati lends support to Avintia, he could do well this year.
Lots of other riders still in the running for wins and/or podiums, even if not a big Championship threat.
It appears that Marc is going to miss at least one more race. If he can come back healthy for the 2nd Austrian race, I think he still has a shot at the Championship. If he’s not back until San Marino (or later), it may be more of a question of poles and race wins, rather that repeating as World Champion.
I watched BB in Moto 2 and was impressed but I never thought he’d break thru to the top this soon. What a great win for KTM and race for Frank and JZar. The video quality is phenomenal, especially when they slow down the 2000 frames per second. JZar’s long lap penalty looked like he was going down a dirt road. I love the way Yamaha SRT is bloodying the nose of the factory Yamaha squad.
Great job Joe in Moto 2!
I thought Binder was pretty amazing to watch in Moto3. And after that one race where he came from last on the grid (P33 i think?) to win the race, I felt for sure there was something special there. Personally, I thought he rode the wheels off the KTM Moto2 bike when no one else could make much ground on it.
I’m surprised we haven’t seen a dedicated post for Joe Roberts yet. Been a long time since an American got a podium in any class.
What an enjoyable race to see those young new guys at the top challenging for the podium and the win. For me, as a fan, this has been a long time coming and a much welcome change. This shows what can happen when any rider and all the teams feel they have a chance; when riders can achieve a podium without feeling forced to ride wildly (recklessly?) over the limit; when a single rider no longer has a chokehold on the championship; when hope and possibility are realistically restored. Look at the diversity now on the podium. KTM factory plus Ducati and Yamaha satellite teams. Who would have predicted (certainly not me) this kind of diverse result had a certain rider conspicuous by his absence been present on the grid during qualifying and the race? MotoGP may now be (at least for a brief moment) the only world championship series NOT plagued by a “winner take all” imbalance (F1 and WSBK being the relevant contrasts that come to my mind).
Well said.
Yes MM should be banned.
yea just imagine how many different winners there could have been if they banned Agostini and Hailwood and Surtees, and Roberts, and Doohan and Lawson and Rossi when they were dominating.
Shake em’ Mickey! Shake em’ like a dog shakes a rat!
Part of enjoying racing is enjoying the personalities of the racers. I know little about the personalities of the first 3 on your list, but feel like I have a reasonable grip on the personalities of the last 4 and the current Champ MM.
This is purely subjective: MM does not quite seem to peg the “passion” meter like the last 4 guys on your list, and that’s putting it as mildly as I can.
MM’s Honda Team Manager Puig stated that race winners would feel they accomplished less by winning against competition of a quality less than MM. Can anyone post a link to a Team Mgr. of one of the racers you listed above making such statement when their racer crashed himself out of competition?
I doubt it.
IMO Puig (and MM’s denial of responsibility for his current situation) make it easier and more likely to root against such hubris and arrogance.
In race 1, does anyone think MM did right in attempting to pass Maverick Vinales, followed by MM’s horrific high-side? The earlier in the series the less is mathematically gained by the points difference between 3rd and 2nd place.
People including myself have marveled at MM’s Houdini-like quality of avoiding major injury, and avoiding crashes where apparently anyone else would have crashed.
Statisticians may call the fact that MM has currently crashed himself out of the series a “return to mean.” The greatest error may be surprise that something so past due has occurred.
OTOH maybe MM returns soon, wins the 2020 Championship, and the next 6 out of 7 too. Nobody really knows.
geez where do I start?
First off you can’t blame MM for what Puig said, and btw MM said it wasn’t true. That whether he was racing or not, whoever wins the WC deserves it.
MM high sided before he had the chance to attempt a pass on Vinales. He was still following Vinales when he went over the curb and high sided. Should he have tried to pass him? Absolutely. You don’t turn lap times a second faster than someone else and then follow them around once you come up behind them. You pass slower riders at first opportunity. Champions race to the flag.
What all multi time champions bring to the table beside skill is ruthlessness. None are afraid to swap paint, and non feel guilty about riding roughly. When an opportunity to advance on the track comes along, they take advantage of it, even force it at times. Rossi was certainly a dirty rider, as was Doohan and Roberts, well, dirty when they needed to be. None were above “guiding” someone into the grass. It takes a certain will and determination and a refusal to lose to become a World Champion just once. (Probably why Pedrosa was never a WC). But to become a multi time World Champion you have to not only beat, you have to intimidate your rivals into thinking they can’t beat you. Rossi was a master at it. MM isn’t even in the same league.
All multi time World Champions share similar traits, and it’s not being Mr Nice Guy when they are racing. Like Zarco said in an interview this weekend after Pol complained about the contact “We are racing, not dancing”.
Marc was right to pass Mav. The problem was that he backed off a bit, and didn’t pass immediately. mickey covers that more in detail.
While it is possible to argue that Marc made a mistake leading to the crash, the injury was a fluke, caused by the bike hitting him. He would have been fine, even with the high side, had the bike not tagged him.
Never doubt KTM.
Yes, I doubted them. Of course, since they faced massive challenges. This is truly amazing, on top a rookie won the race. Hard to believe, but a signal that Orange is dead serious!
Orange is the new blue!
Yep i was absolutley a doubter. Fantastic ride from Binder and after watching morning warm up i slapped a cheeky $10 on him for the win. Not to take anything away from KTM, but it is only one win and Marquez not being there makes me wonder how many more they will win this year? Did the Czech track just suit the KTM better or have they genuinely now got a competitive bike? Time will tell…
I am a Binder fan, and I have to admit I felt a little robbed when he went to KTM and not one of the “top” teams. I was worried that his GP career might stagnate without the right kit.
The step KTM has made between 2019 and 2020 seems like a quantum leap in GP terms. I know there are still a lot of tracks left to truly test the mettle of the bike, but I must tip my hat to KTM. Congrats to Binder, and congrats to KTM on their first win.
As far as the Zarco/Pol incident goes. I agree with just about everyone else that Zarco was wrongly penalized. If you go wide, it’s your responsibility to come back in safely.
I agree. And really was excited over Zarco performance in the “marbles”!!
Great race by Binder ,I think this was no fluke & showed his skill and is definitely a turning point for him in his Moto Gp career , after 6 years riding a KTM from MOT0 3 TO Moto Gp , KTM finally getting the bike to where they can compete with the big boys & Binder the right person with the right attitude & determination to push the bike to the limit & compete and trounce the big boys ,makes for a very interesting season of Moto Gp
“You doubted KTM. You know you did.” Actually, no. They have a first-class race team that has already proven itself in motocross and supercross. It was only a matter of time. Frankly, I’m a bit surprised it took as long as it did. They should put Roger DeCoster in charge of MotoGP!
2 years ago — to great ridicule from this forum — I said that within 2 years KTM would be competitive. How can anyone doubt them, after all the success they’ve had everywhere they’ve gone?
I don’t think anyone is talking about this, but Pedrosa is a KTM test rider and I wonder if his input has been instrumental in developing their motorcycle.
All of the team has said what a positive contribution the little Samurai has made to making the KTM rideable. It’s paying off.
I miss Pedrosa in MotoGP.
One has to wonder how relevant the input of a 5’2″, 112-lb rider is regarding the at-the-limit set-up of a machine that will be ridden by much taller, heavier riders, particularly when that test rider spent the previous two decades riding vastly different machinery.
I don’t know. I’m sure his input helps in a general sense, but there is no way his set-up tips are going to work for the likes of a Valentino Rossi or Danilo Petrucci, who are so much larger than Dani. Among KTM riders, Pol is 5’7″, 140 lbs. Brad Binder is one centimeter shorter than Pol, and the same weight.
Not sure how diminutive stature figures in to race bike development. Are you saying only little guys are smart? Bad news for me, since I’m not a little guy …
Don’t worry, none of us will admit to being such, either.
“Not sure how diminutive stature figures in to race bike development. Are you saying only little guys are smart?”
Of course not. I’m saying that when it comes to setting up a MotoGP bike, the weight and physical dimensions of the rider play a crucial role. Throughout his career, Dani was notorious for doing poorly in cooler conditions, and doing much better on blazing hot days. Reason being, he weighed so little, he struggled to generate heat in his tires when the track surface was cooler. On the flipside, he was usually a demon at steaming-hot Sepang.
Also relating to Dani, just take a look at the 2007 and 2008 Repsol Honda. Nicky won the title on the 2006 1000cc bike, but when Honda designed the next model, the 800cc version, they basically disregarded Nicky and designed the new bike around the much more diminutive Dani. It fit him. It never fit Nicky. In terms of set-up, Dani and Nicky could never use the same seating position, suspension settings, or chassis geometry. Nicky was just plain too tall and heavy for Dani’s settings to work for him.
When Dani was hired by KTM to be their test rider, many people in the MotoGP paddock raised this same question. “How is someone that tiny going to provide effective input on chassis set-up and tire wear for guys who outweigh him by forty lbs, and who are six inches taller? Dani was always pretty finicky, needing everything to be just right. He wasn’t exactly a Marc Marquez or Kevin Schwantz, i.e., a guy who could ride around set-up problems when the bike wasn’t working well for him on a given day.”
Jeremy does raise a good (and funny) point, though. Riding alongside Marc Marquez for so many years, Dani sure has all the experience in the world of seeing a top-shelf Honda weapon go from handling well for most riders to handling for absolute shit for all but one rider. Maybe KTM sees value in his particular wealth of firsthand knowledge when it comes to “Here is what we do NOT want to do!”
I definitely agree that Dani’s setup would not work for other riders, but there’s knowledge gained from making that setup that is applied to making setups for the other riders.
My point was that he’s played a key role in the bikes technical development. Such as power delivery, handling, braking…
According to KTM when questioned about that back when they first hired Pedrosa, they (Pit Breirer I think) said that it wasn’t an issue. “Fast is fast” I recall him saying.
Though they’ve never said so that I remember reading, I’d wager that Pedrosa’s experience concerning the changes that dictated the evolution of a bike that he could ride really fast to one he could barely ride was also of particular interest to KTM.
From what I read in a Pol Espargaro interview, he credits Dani’s input with making the bike easier to carry speed thru the turns
Anyone who claims they predicted this podium trio, in this order, is flat-out lying.
Wow.
First KTM dry-race podium, and they would have had two of the three spots were it not for the coming together of Zarco and Pol.
First KTM victory, period.
First South African victory.
First podium for Frankie, although he would have also had one in Jerez had his bike not crapped out on him.
First Pole position for Avintia, whose other rider, Tito Rabat, remains mired every week down near the bottom of the grid.
First podium for Avintia, despite having to complete a Long Lap penalty, which Zarco really didn’t deserve.
In addition, it’s also clear that Miquel Oliveira and Pecco Bagnaia are coming, and Pol already seems to be there.
Meanwhile… Dovi, Petrux, and Miller? Wasn’t THIS the weekend, along with the next two in Austria, during which Dovi and Ducati were going to reestablish their championship mettle, especially with #93 on the sidelines? Brno is a Ducati track, and a Dovi track.
Who woulda thunkit that Johan Zarco, of all people, riding for the traditional doormat team of the series—recall that Zarco inherited the seat of perennial bottom-feeder Karel Abraham, who was only in MotoGP all these years because his father, who owns the Brno circuit, bought his son that ride every season—would now be leading the Bologna charge?
Wasn’t it 2017 when something like nine different riders won a MotoGP race, and we all thought it among the strangest seasons we’d ever witnessed?
This one is shaping up to be even weirder, by a country mile.
Was an interesting race to say the least.
I didn’t think Zarco deserved the penalty either and I’m not really a Zarco fan. That was a racingincident. When someone runs wide, and another cuts under and has the line, I don’t think it’s the resposibility of the guy on the line to make way for someone coming back onto the line. Remember last year (or was it year before last) with Pedrosa low on the line, Lorenzo coming back in to the line and colliding with him and then Lorenzo taking out Dovi?
I was hoping Rins would make the podium with his broken arm.
At any rate, a fun race to watch, and my goodness how the unknowns are rising to the top this year.
I agree. Zarco didn’t deviate one inch from his line. He kept the same tight line throughout the corner. He had his head turned to the right, looking through the corner, and when Pol drifted wide Zarco didn’t have to do anything extra in order to move into the open space. In fact, there is no way he could even see Pol, once Pol drifted wide. At that point, it’s on Pol to come back safely onto his own line. If someone is now occupying that space, he has to stand it up and back off.
Ninety-nine times out of a hundred, the announcers would exclaim, “Pol left the door open, and Zarco, not needing a second invitation, said, ‘Thank you very much!’ A classic Brno pass!”
Right, but that wouldn’t be Woke.
gary hocking was from Rhodesia and they can ballast Pedro’s bike to simulate heavier riders…
Rhodesia isn’t/wasn’t South Africa. Upon its dissolution Rhodesia became Zimbabwe, bordering South Africa to the south.
Brad Binder is South Africa’s first premier-class race winner of the modern Grand Prix/MotoGP era.
It was an amazing race, to say the least. If you hadn’t read the stuff leading up to it, it’s worthwhile to look back on. Most riders were very critical of the track conditions (terrible bumps, low grip). It hasn’t been resurfaced in 12 years and was bad enough that Pol Espargaro called it unfit for a MotoGP race. Those conditions seemed to have turned this race upside down. Some guys team’s figured it out, others struggled badly.
About the Zarco Epargaro crash. I thought it a racing incident as Epargaro was taking a wider line in that corner than most it seemed. And these guys aren’t usually polite when passing.
I remember an elementary school saying “Move your feet, lose your seat”. And in racing, holes are opportunities!
Way to go KTM!
Pol Espargaro was fighting for a **podium** position with Zarco when the two collided….
no aliens=who knows!
Maybe the planets have shifted.